Subwoofer for classical music listener

Thanks for the responses.
I have a 25'x23' foot room, a much modified vintage system with great impact  which, to me, is perfectly balanced for classical except for ultra low bass (e.g. organ).
 System:
Modified Dalquist DQ 20 speakers, modified Nuforce amps, modified vintage CJ preamp, Theta DAC, Oppo BluRay player used as transport, Rega RP3 turntable, Grado Sonata cartridge.
I would like to spend around $1000, more or less (preferably less.)

Does anyone have an opinion of the REL S/2 sub?

Akg-ca.     Wow!  What  a comprehensive post!
Is there any reason not to go with the Vandersteen 2Wq!?
Anyone else have an opinion?

"So-called" classical music is not an elitist term.  Admittedly it is a vague genre. But it usually, but not always, indicates acoustic music. There is electronic (synthesizer) classical music and jazz-oriented classical music using electrified instruments.  The term is just descriptive to differentiate it from other forms (folk, ethnic, jazz, etc.).
As you say, it generally relies on natural acoustic instruments, but in a specific space (concert hall, auditorium, club, studio, etc). It is this variable of space that, I believe, makes it more difficult to reproduce on playback.  Spatial elements are more critical in acoustic music and therefore harder to reproduce.

Yes!
Thanks to your recommendation and one other that was glowing, and a price I couldn't refuse, I bought a used one on Audiogon.
The only problem now is to find a crossover that matches the impedance of my amplifier.  I suppose I can use the sub just the way it is now without any damage.
I wrote to Vandersteen about obtaining one.

Audioconnection:   Thanks for your encouragement.
I've already looked at the manual online.  It mentions a  wx-2 variable crossover that's included with the sub.  The seller says he doesn't have that variable crossover.  He ordered a designated crossover which matches his amplifier.
It probably won't match mine which has an input impedance of 22K. I don't think he knows the impedance of his amp.

Gdnrbob:  Thank you so much for your post and your offer!
I only just emailed the question of whether I can run the signal without a crossover to Vandersteen. The 2Wq's are coming with crossovers of 200 k.
my amplifier's impedance is only 22k.
Can you email me your response to rvallis@optonline.net. so we can discuss this further.
Again, thank you so much for your kindness.

After much difficulty I finally got to set up my used 2Wq sub only to find that the left channel doesn't work. I followed the directions in the manual exactly in setting up the wx-2 variable crossover, matching it to my amp. I checked all the connections several times for tightness and correctness.
 I even reversed the connectors to to the amp and the left channel still was out!
Both channels work fine without the wx-2 and sub attached.
Prior to getting the sub Richard Vandersteen himself wrote and warned me not to hook it up without the crossover as it would cause damage.  A very generous member of this forum lent me the wx-2 as it wasn't included by the seller.
After many hours of experimentation I still have gotten nowhere.
The seller says it worked fine for him with a fixed crossover.  He is sympathetic and is willing to give me a full refund.  I hate to return it because the one channel that works sounds great. I can only imagine how stereo would sound.
Does anyone have any ideas?

Al:   Thank you so much for your input.
Before I obtained the sub I spoke to the NuForce technician who modified the amps and told him I was adding a subwoofer.  He didn't raise any objections.
Hopefully he knew of the problem.  I'll call him today
I spoke to a Vandersteen dealer today who thinks the problem is a faulty wx-2 variable output box.  I'm going to try to get another box to see if that's the problem.

Al:  you are a lifesaver!!
i just spoke with the NuForce technician and he confirmed what you said.
I can't use the Vandersteen with my amps.
Thank the heavens I didn't blow the amps.  They seem to be working fine.
Again thanks a million!!!

I've found out the hard way that I'm extremely limited in what kind of subwoofer I can match to my NuForce class D monoblock amps.  If you've followed this thread you've read that the Vandersteen sub I bought was incompatible with my amps and could have damaged them.  (Thank goodness they're okay.)
Evidently I need a sub which can accept a "floating output" sub. I can't hook up subs to the same posts as the speakers use, which was the case with the Vandersteen.
I've  been told some REL models are compatible but I don't know which ones.
Does anyone know of any subs that are compatible with my type of amps.
People suggest I should change amps instead, but I'm really happy with how perfectly the NuForce amps match with my system.

Al:  Thanks again for your help.
The preamp is a vintage CJ P11 tube model.
i don't really know what modifications were done except that I sent it out not working and it came back sounding better than ever. I don't know what they did, if anything, to change the design.
My connecting cables are about two feet in length.

Al:  Thank you for the time and effort you've put into this.
I notice the SVS-SB1000 sells for about $500.
Can the quality at this price level  be any good?
Or should I look further?

Al:  I notice the SVS-SB 2000 is only $200 more.  My room is about 575sq ft.
the 1000 is recommended for small to medium sized rooms.  The 2000 is ported.
Is the 2000 a match for my amp as well as the 1000?
Sorry to keep bothering you!

I called SVS an they assured me the SB-2000 has the same line level input (47K) as the 1000, so I ordered it.
Thanks everyone for your help (especially Al) in choosing a subwoofer.
I hope this one works out.
Richard

Al:  I'm just as happy to have a new sub instead of the very well worn used one, of which I'm sure I would be the third owner.

Last couple of posts very discouraging!
Well, at least I have 45 days to experiment and decide.
I love my system just the way it is for classical.  Only want to get those lower octaves.
If the sub starts to harm a hair on the head of my system, it's gone!

Btw, I was in error. The SVS SB-2000 is NOT ported?
The  SP-2000 is ported.

Yogiboy, thanks for pointing it out and thank you for the encouragement too!

Stfoth. Thanks for the encouragement !

I did a long time ago own a Carver Sunfire sub with a small good quality tube amplifier (can't remember the name -- very sweet sounding). 
Problem was a big hole in the middle of the sonic spectrum. Lows were there, highs were there; lower midrange missing.
So, until now was wary of getting a sub.
We'll see what transpires.

Now retired, I was a professional classical musician (pianist.)
Having played in many instrumental combinations and performed in and attended countless orchestral concerts, I well know what real instruments sound like.
I simply want to enhance my already quite realistic system with more dimension.
I'm hoping a subwoofer will do this.

I really don't want to start experimenting with new equipment, regardless of cost, as my current setup (which took me years to perfect) gives me the concert experience of live music I've heard the vast majority of the time.
I just want to be able to hear the fundamental tones of, for example, an organ.

Bob: Thank you so much for your interest and response!

Ok!  So I just got my SVS SB 2000 subwoofer.
now I'm experimenting with various settings and positions.
So far, I'm delighted that it hasn't compromised the sound of my system.
I have a question though.  Whereas it has filled in the bass very nicely,
complementing the sound, there have been no visceral lows like that which I hear in a concert hall.  The bass fiddle in a jazz group sounds just fine, very well balanced.  But when I play a Telarc block buster, I expect more impact.
It is very satisfying musically in the stuff I've played so far.
Am I asking too much?
One possible problem is the Y connector joining the sub and amplifier to the preamp.
Although I ordered the correct figuration, Amazon sent the wrong one.
So, I had to jump in my car and get a very thin, cheap one from Radio Shack (yes, there still out there, but few and far between.). I've reordered one, triple the thickness.  The SVS guy said the thickness shouldn't have that much effect, but I wonder. (Size does matter!)

Al:  Again thank you for your continuing help.
I could give you approximate room dimensions but I'll wait til I get a tape measure.

i have a question about phasing.
The SVS guy told me to set the phase to zero. How do I determine phasing differences?  What do I listen for? I really couldn't hear differences when I first set up the sub.

I'm using two sets of Y connectors as outlined in the manual.
I'm not sure how to do the high pass filter option. 

Rhljazz:  There's impact and there's IMPACT!
  I haven't lost any of the power of the original hook-up. 
I'm just referring to the belly shaking boom of the bass drum in a concert hall.
I'm getting much more bass than I had. Just not that overwhelming sort.
Maybe my expectations are unrealistic.
But I'm really happy with the overall sound.  Everything is richer and fuller.

Yogiboy: As far as I know there are no inputs on my amp.

Excuse me, I meant outputs.  I'm very confused! lol

Yes!  I finally got it!
To do it I'll have to buy another matching IC.

Amen to mark's statement!!!

I've  been fiddling (pun intended) with the three sub controls and I think I've come to a very satisfactory solution. I WAS trying to bring a concert hall (or cathedral) into my living room. Unrealistic.  I now have extremely satisfying bass that goes very deep without sounding muddy.
  Interestingly, when I set the low pass filter from 80 to 100, everything started sounding more realistic. I also adjusted the phase control to get better results.
The variable of the bass control was a little more tricky.  I think I've got it where it sounds good on the majority of the records and CDs that I've been testing.
So, so far, I'm a happy camper.  I'll keep experimenting, because that's the way we are, but I'm very happy to have gotten the SVS sub.

Thank all of of you (of course, especially Al) for all your comments and suggestions. 

Schubert: You're right. But right now I'm still in the "audiophile" stage.  When I settle down a bit I'll be "Bach."
But, the audiophile stage is a lot of fun!

tablejockey: I don't know where I'd put a second sub.  The opposite wall from the current sub has a doorway and a closet.
  I'm just enjoying the way it is now.
Maybe later I'll figure something out.

I just fine tuned the bass of the sub by a method that some people might find useful.  Like, I'm sure, most new subwoofer owners, I had  the bass tuned higher than I should have.  Then I listened to two records of a classical symphony
 ( Mozart's 39th in Eb.)  By finding the balance (equal volume) between upper (violins) and lower strings (cellos and basses,) I got the best quality of sound.
I then tested many other combinations of instruments (including organ) and styles  (including jazz) and found everything to be in balance.

Tablejockey:  When I'm ready, I'll start experimenting with two subs.
I can see I'll have to get creative in setting them up.
It would probably be an improvement over one.
So far, though, I'm delighted with the one I have.

Happy listening to you too!

Upon extensive listening, I've discovered that, although I love the sub, there is a definite coloration and lack of precise imaging when listening with it on. It's wonderful for selections with low bass, but in pieces with complex harmonics it doesn't quite have the "magic" that the unadorned system has.
But, it is a lot of fun and quite exciting and I'll be listening to it much of the time.
I can see an integrated system with both qualities would require me to get a whole new setup and cost big bucks.
 I'm very happy the way it is for now.
Its giving me options I never had before.

Tablejockey:  I'm sure you're right that I haven't found the ideal setting and spot for the sub.
I have limitations as to where I can place it (furniture, closets, doorways and most important, wife.) I also don't know if I have the fortitude for the job!
Right now I'm listening to an audiophile pressing of "Tony Bennett at Carnegie Hall." Without the sub it has no character at all.  It comes to life amazingly with the sub.
Wonderful!!
But with most classical, the way it's configured now, I just don't get the same enjoyment.
Not that I haven't tried.  I've spent several days and hours at it.  Maybe I should be more dedicated.

I just might do that... now that you mention it

I still have to get matching cables to do the high-pass option.

Well, here goes again.
 Changing the Y splitters from Radio Shack to thicker audiophile cables has made an improvement with the sub. Seems to have smoothed out everything.  If anything, there seems to be a wider soundstage than without the sub.

Please forgive my daily ramblings. This is, as they say, "a voyage of discovery."
I'm now listening to a classical piece with the sub and really enjoying it

tablejockey:  Late fifties, early sixties: golden age of sound:  tube electronics, no Dolby cutting off the highs.

stfoth:  I finally got around to the idea of trying the high-pass filter option.
I called SVS to order the cables and the rep said I needed powered speakers to go that route.  I don't have powered speakers

That's what I thought!  I can't understand why he would have told me that.  Maybe it's because it was closing time on aFriday and he didn't want to be bothered transacting a cable sale.  Who Knows?!

stfoth:  Thank you so much for your encouragement with the high pass option.  I had just about given up the hope of having the same quality with as without the subwoofer.  
Miracle of miracles! The high pass option seems to have done the trick.
Preliminary tests show no seeming degradation of the signal.
Of course, I just started testing and adjusting, but wow, the signs are very encouraging.
Thanks again.

And Al, of course thank you.  Wouldn't have happened without YOU!

As I'm listening to the high pass option of the SVS, I can't believe the improvement in transparency over the standard hookup.  The qualities of my system are shining through. I keep waiting for he other shoe to drop!
Hopefully, it won't.

ebm: I can't lift 300 lbs.

Now that I have my speakers and subwoofer are more or less in balance, I have another question.  I'm connecting them with cables that are probably too long (25') and very inexpensive (about $100 for 4 individual interconnects) that I bought from SVS.
Would this type of connection benefit greatly with better cabling?
Would it be worth investing in more expensive cables?
I'm happy with the current sound, but, you know, we're always wanting more!
 I don't want to go crazy with exotic very costly cables, but I'm just asking.

tablejockey:  Yes, I've come a long way.  Still traveling.
Thanks for he tip. 
Where would I attach the power cable?

The reason I'm asking about connecting cables is that I'd like to smooth out the highs which are a little bright.

I'm running 25' cables from preamp to sub and from sub to amp, four 25' cables in all.  I could probably get away with 15' cables. I understand from SVS that's the next size down, but I'd feel comfortable with a foot or more longer than 15.
I have Dalquist DQ 20 speakers.
In just about  all other parameters but brightness I'm very happy with the sound.  I dont want to fool anymore with settings. I suspect cables will improve things.

Btw, I mistakenly said I paid $100 for the four cables.  It was $100 for one pair: total $200.  Still pretty inexpensive.

Al:  Again, thank you for your detailed post!

I'm going to trade in the 8 meter cables for the 5 meter to see if that improves things.  
Also, I suspect an intermittently misbehaving preamplifier tube might be  the culprit since the anomaly varies from time to time.
I just ordered a new set of tubes, just in case.

stfoth:  Yes, except for lacking deep bass, I was happy with the system before I added a sub (but, for other reasons, was not happy when I hooked up the sub the normal way.)
With the high-pass I started experimenting, alternately physically removing the sub and putting it back into the system.  During this process I sometimes noticed exaggerated highs even without the sub.  That's why I'm suspecting a bad tube may be developing in the preamp.  Alternately, sometimes the system sounds fine with the sub connected.
 I recently had the amplifiers upgraded, so I don't think there's a malfunction there.
It's not an exact science.
 I'm trying to cover all bases.