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Subwoofer Decisions - REL/Rythmik, Pair/Single, Paper/Aluminum Driver, etc.

I have decided to upgrade my subwoofers. I have a 15x12 room with an open side wall that I use for 2 channel and HT. Two channel music performance is the priority. We don’t listen to either very loud or need the room to shake. I am considering the REL S/510 and the Rythmik F12, F12G, FM8, L22 and E22. I have an all Linn vintage system. My speakers are Aktiv by installing special crossover cards in the 5 channel Class V amp. It outputs to the speakers in a bi-wire configuration. If I used a high level speaker connection I guess I would have to tie into the speaker wires connected to the Bass/Mid card.

Any thoughts on Rythmik v REL? You seem to get a lot more for your money with Rythmik and they also offer more options - finish, sizes, configurations, etc. Supporting a Texas based business is also nice. Do they offer equal or better quality and performance? There seem to be many fans that think so.

Any thoughts on Rythmik’s paper v aluminum drivers? The owner says that the aluminum driver retains its shape faster and is more detailed. He recommended the aluminum in my system over the paper even for 2 channel. The paper is lighter and has better extension above 80Hz. I’ve also heard that it is better at low volumes because it easier to move. My current subs have paper drivers and paper seems to be greatly preferred in the audiophile community.

Any thoughts on pair v single sub in my size room? One 10 or 12 is probably enough to pressurize the room but will a pair of dual 8 or 12’s make everything easier and better? Is there a point where they will overwhelm the room?

Things are pretty tight in my room so the smaller footprint of the vertically stacked FM8 and L22/E22 are appealing. Also stacked drivers look badass right? The FM8 with its dual 8 inch drivers will probably be faster than the larger 10 and 12 models. It also appears to go plenty low enough to keep up for basic HT needs. The L22/E22 have a smaller footprint than the single driver F12 but I’m concerned that those might be overkill.

High level speaker connection? REL recommends it. Rythmik offers it but recommends using other methods. Anyone know if using it with a Class V amp and tying it only to the bass/mid speaker output will perform well? I’m not sure how REL implements its filters to make this work. Is the high level connection really better in performance?

Thanks for the help.
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Showing 3 responses by golfnutz

golfnutz
231 posts
 
It's refreshing seeing other members using REW/Umik to see exactly what's going on in their environment. I have Rythmik E15HP2 subs.

I just don't understand how some guys just plunk their subs in any location, use bass heavy music, and adjust the volume according to a hand full of songs - except when a heavier bass song gets played, they adjust the volume again. Seems like a waste of money to me.

As an example, without using measurements, they have no idea if there's a bass hump, and by turning down the volume on the sub to address an issue like that, they lose out on the other bass frequencies because they've just made them inaudible. Forget about trying to achieve a flat bass response without using measurements - the advantage is you get to hear all bass frequencies.




golfnutz
231 posts
 
Thanks for the response musicaddict.

I have nothing against DBA, it’s just how some guys install multiple subs in their room with absolutely no thought, then make comments on Audiogon about how amazing everything sounds, including better mids and highs. So many OMG moments, but without any proof that what they’re hearing could actually be better - way better. At least measurements are a way to back the claims up. Basically, it’s better because I said it was (I just turned the volume so you could barely hear the bass) - OK, good for you then. Except, they’ll adjust the volume down on the subs again when a heavier bass song comes along. Again, no idea what bass frequencies they’ve just removed from anything they should be hearing just because they have a peak somewhere and don’t know it.
Also, what if someone could actually get a very good looking frequency response curve from say 150Hz down to 20Hz with a couple of subs. Let’s assume within plus/minus 7dB across that frequency range. Is it really worth the cost of adding 1 or even 2 more subs just because someone says the more the better ? And what if adding more subs actually makes the curve look worse, or only corrects it to within 5dB?
We have the tools to help with evaluating what’s going on, there’s no guessing or throwing darts at anything. Yes, it might take some extra work to go through many test scenarios, but at least we’re informed along the way - no false claims.

BTW - none of my comments are directed at you, or anyone else in particular.

golfnutz
231 posts
 
That’s a good example hilde45 of being within 7db from 100Hz down to 20Hz. So my question is, would the cost justify the purchase of another sub to flatten out that 5db peak? That’s assuming it could be flattened.
It would be interesting to see the phase and group delay on your screen shot. I only say this because of how you’ve set the variable phase on the Rythmik subs.
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