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Sub placement

Greetings all and thanks in advance regarding this question.

Go to the “about” page to see my equipment and room:
theaudioatticvinylsundays.com

I have had the same equipment more or less for 30+ years, excepting the sub, which was added 7 years ago. The only other major change has been the room. Three years ago, I moved from a lively, noisy lower Manhattan loft of 41 years to a room that has walls and ceiling insulated with 6” to 17” of rockwool covered by burlap, snd 7” of rockwool under the floorboards between the joists. This made a decided improvement.

In spite of all the insulation, the room, with its weird shape - two dormers and a gable - does present some challenges.

I have never been happy with the sub placement.

I had been following the advice of a friend who worked as the sound engineer at the UN. He said to put it where you sit, walk around the room until you find the spot where it sounds best, and then put it there.

There was never a spot where it sounded best. A few that sounded better, but did not stand out in any way. I would try one for a few months, then tire of it and try another.

Over the weekend, I spent a few hours cleaning out the dust in the amps, resetting the tubes, rotating the Altec drivers in the cabinets, etc.

For some reason, I thought that, hey, I never tried putting the sub behind the listening spot. So I put it under my desk, which is about 3 feet directly behind the armchair where I sit to listen.

Voila.

Anyone have any experience with the sub behind the listening spot? Is this weird or actually not so uncommon?

Anyone venture a guess as to why that would work? A recording studio friend who I thought would make more than an educated guess said to just file it under “hey, it works, don’t think too hard about it, just sit back and enjoy!”

I suppose “home theatre systems” with their half dozen or more speakers around the room do this all the time, but I’m not getting why putting everything from 20 to 70 behind me and everything from 70 to 20,000 in front of me would not only help make the bass more textured and authoritative, but also help open up the rest of the soundstage: make it feel airier, clearer and more detailed.

The downside is that I now feel like I’m sitting on the stage instead of in front of it. I’m finding that dialing the phono-stage back and forth helps with that, as does dialing around the BME Sonic maximizer (don’t laugh: they are analog, and they work), so I think that will eventually resolve itself.
unreceivedogma

Showing 8 responses by unreceivedogma

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unreceivedogma OP
1,080 posts
 
Musicaddict:

I don’t hear the sub’s location. When listening to Bill Evan’s “Waltz for Debby” the bass is in fact coming from the front of the stage off to the right for example. But the piano is now very nearly in my lap! 

The Velodyne crosses over at 70 and is fixed there, I can’t adjust it. It has a servo-processor/controller and it’s own amp.
unreceivedogma's avatar
unreceivedogma OP
1,080 posts
 
Thx jtcf.

I have a second Velodyne ULD 15, but these things are big enough (don’t forget the huge cabinets that the Altecs are in), and this one already can be easily felt on the ground floor (ground, 2nd, 3rd, attic), yet I wasn’t getting the sound quality that I was expecting.

I’m waiting for the SVS Soundpath Feet to arrive.
unreceivedogma's avatar
unreceivedogma OP
1,080 posts
 
Oldhbymec,

Thx, I suspect that the feet that I’m waiting for will help. I had wooden floors in the loft but the mechanical transmission wasn’t as much of a problem as the reflections were. 

Speakers in the front: I guess I’m old old old school. Not quite victrola in the corner old, but definitely showing my age. It just never occurred to me to put the sub behind the sweet spot.
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unreceivedogma OP
1,080 posts
 
Ddrave44:

The only control on the 15” Velodyne ULD II is a volume control. That’s it. It is set 50% lower now.

I have a BBE282ii to adjust the phasing, one for each channel, but those are between the preamp and the sub’s servo/amp. The sub’s servo allegedly has a computer that makes 3,500 adjustments per second based on feedback coming directly from the driver.
unreceivedogma's avatar
unreceivedogma OP
1,080 posts
 
Andrs65:

I am not familiar with the technology that you are using. I’m just glad a light bulb finally went off in my head about putting it behind the “sweet chair”.

I thought: the sub sounds the best in its old spot between and slightly behind the mains when standing next to it, so why not move it next to the chair? Makes no sense to put it in front of or to either side, so it had to go behind. 

Not that the logic I employed here is in any way correct.

A distinguishing feature of the room shape is that it’s not rectangular. It’s two triangles cutting into each other, one larger (the overall roof), the other smaller (the gable). And then there’s the two dormers.
unreceivedogma's avatar
unreceivedogma OP
1,080 posts
 
Mijostyn, 

Your comment is consistent with the rational behind the coaxial mains: the tweeter and woofer signal comes from the same point source. 
No “corners” to put the sub in at the moment. 
unreceivedogma's avatar
unreceivedogma OP
1,080 posts
 
Keillor: the Velodyne ULD 25 is floor firing. I can’t “aim” it in any direction in the way you suggest.
unreceivedogma's avatar
unreceivedogma OP
1,080 posts
 
speakermaster: I had it close to the mains, in a corner behind a main, in a corner behind the other main, between the mains, between the mains forward a bit, between the mains backward a bit, against one wall about half way between me and the mains (couldn’t do against the other wall, the stairway is there).

Three feet behind the listening chair is blowing them all away. There is a slight loss in some detail in the midrange vocal area, more than made up for in detail in other areas and an overall naturalness.

The rubber feet arrived, they are making a difference also (the piano is nearly back where it belongs).
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