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Speakers The single most critical component

I know we've been over this Q hundreds of X's over the past 20 years here on audion, You can find dozen of topics dealing with this Q <which is the ,,,,most important component...>>
well time for yet 1 more topic dealing with this,, perhaps unanswered, un-resolved issue.
I'm bringing up the old hachet due to my recent experience acutally hearinga FR in my system. 
Let me tell you, there is not even 1 traditional/conventioanl/xover design <The Boxed Type>> in the world that could convince me  , there is something that will beat out FR (caveat, FR requires  some sort of high sens =sensitivity, tweeter)  in  the Boxy world of speakers.
That is to say, FR + Compression Horn is the future of 21st Century high fidelity. 
One lab has already brought us these ~~~SHF~~~ aka SuperHighFidelity  single drivers. 
The code word here is ~~SHF~~~ which can not never be employed when describing xover/trad/conventioanl style  aka The Box designs. db level under 91 are _<<IN-EFFICIENT>> , = dysfunctional, out dated, old school , = Dinasaurs. 
For amps, I only consider tube amps (PP and SET) as ~~SHF~~~ I can not include ss amps in this topic. 
IMHO all well made tube amps sound very close,
 a  kt88 in brand X will sound  close to brand Y. 
So amplification takes a  distant 2nd place in critical component.  No need to break the bank buying amp A vs  a  lower priced kt88 amp B
CD players, nearly all  tube DAC's , tube cdp-ers sound  close. No need to braek the bank over X vs Y.
My Jadis DAC is  only miniscule gain over the Shanling,
 the Shanling
only a  miniscule gain over the Cayin CD17. 
Now as for  best source  , phonograph is the ideal playback medium vs cds. 
I have some LP's now , but my main collection are classical cds, most not on LP version. Cables , I did note some gains employing silver/copper wiring throughout my entire system including inside the Defy.
Tweak worthy.
New Mundorf caps in all componets, tweak worthy. 
Yet the main central component remaisn the speakers.
Here is where  the entire audio resolution either rises to Nirvana or falls to <<distortion/muddy waters,/pollution/anti-fidelity  voicing  issues.
Your system's fidelity is ultimately dependent on what speaker  you have chosen to employ.
Forget all you've learned over the years, 
The new mantra is <,The speaker is key component>
All else is just extra tweaks/nuances. 
To sum up, a  ~~SHF~~ driver will match even the top of line Wilson weighing in at hundreds of lbs priced $$$$$$$ overa single FR driver. 
FR beats out any/all xover box design speakers. Mostly due to that key specification ~~db level~~~ which is everything in speaker design and thus in resolution/fidelity. 

mozartfan

Showing 2 responses by lonemountain

lonemountain
484 posts
 
Mozart fan
I think reducing an evaluation down to one aspect - efficiency- of the many issues to consider is not the idea. Its like saying you'll only consider a car that gets over X miles per gallon as a proper car.  What if you want a sports car?  Or if you want a truck to haul things?  Different motors, different efficiencies.  Efficiency is NOT the only thing that matters in engines or drivers. 

From product management experience at JBL and with ATC, a driver can be optimized for bandwidth OR efficiency.  If you want more low end from a driver, it WILL be less efficient.   IF you are willing to forgo some low end, you can go for efficiency.

I know for example ATC SCM19/20 systems average 87dB SPL 1w/1m.    In its sealed box, that 7 inch SL driver has response down to 30-40 hz.  Why give up this low end for a higher efficiency when amp power is so affordable these days?  Its not like the old horn days, where a 70W amp was about as large as they get (at least in tube power amps).  

Brad        
lonemountain
484 posts
 

LMA: Efficiency is NOT the only thing that matters in engines or drivers.

Phusis: And yet it's rarely prioritized or recognized as even ONE of the core parameters in speaker engineering.

Lone Mountain: Who on earth told you that?  That's not true.  Transducer engineers HAVE to consider ALL parameters to achieve a result that fits the target.  More bass?  Smaller size? Lower distortion?  High reliabliity?   Needs to be cheap?  Needs to be high performance?  Part of a mulitway application so bandwidth to 20K isn't an issue?  A zillion decisions to make by the product manager/engineer in driver design with a specific goal in mind.    So it goes like this:  "I need a LF driver in a three way that has the lowest distortion possible, rolls off at around 42 Hz, system levels are to be 100dB sustained without failure for 24hrs.  Price has to be under $500 retail".  That's a helluva puzzle to solve.  Most speaker manufacturers call up a their wholesale driver supplier and see how close they can get to something off the shelf that achieves that.  Someone like Peerless in India, or JBL in India. Some try and build their own, like ATC.        
Transducers (drivers) are one of the most significant physics puzzles of audio, involving materials science, hydraulics, electrical science, acoustics, mechanics- its a true rubiks cube.   It is not some afterthought.   

LMA: From product management experience at JBL and with ATC, a driver can be optimized for bandwidth OR efficiency. If you want more low end from a driver, it WILL be less efficient.  IF you are willing to forgo some low end, you can go for efficiency.

Phusis: To some extend at least you can have your cake and eat it too: add size, but that's usually the one thing audiophilia wants to avoid, so, in that case it's either/or.  

Lone Mountain: A transducer engineer, a good one, cannot set an issue aside cause he's guessing what his customer's customer cares about.  They are engineering to hit some goal, always narrowly defined; there is no " oh lets go through a 5 year process to build this new driver and spend 10s of thousands on tooling and lets just see what we get when we are done".  They know what the target is, they are working with materials and designs of things like formers and coils and spiders LONG before the first new driver is built.  There is no guessing in engineering-most principles are well understood.  There might be some experimentation, but that requires a very well funded engineering department and some very deep insight.  Ray Cooke is such a person (KEF), as is Billy Woodman (ATC), Floyd Toole (JBL), Doug Button (JBL), etc etc.         

Efficiency has it biggest influence because it determines what else you can or can't do in your design.  Picking efficiency out of the very long list of design criteria as THE pointer to performance is like saying that one spec (THD) defines how great a piece of electronics sounds, one spec (MPG) tells you how good the car is, one spec (brightness) tells you how good a TV is.   All of us involved in the making of audio gear know this idea is not true- unless we are unaware or just ignore all the other differences.  There are some highly efficient speakers that just sound awful, no?  Tube PreAmps sound amazing to many yet the THD spec indicates it would be horrible.  Vinyl vs digital files- need I go on?    

You are trying to reduce a very complex issue into some simple yes/no question and that is not possible with transducers or audio in general.

Brad   
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