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Speakers as the principle component/other components are servants

Speakers  hold the Kingship in our overall  audio systems. 
I think my recent posts have substaniated  this thesis, well at least my opinion of sorts.
This OP  came to me after reading  through some of (most of what is too deep for my understanding) 
pedro's 
topic
**Why is science a  starting point, yet not the end point?*
Meaning science gives us all sorts of parimeters, specs, graphs and such. Most of which we have no clue how to interpret, 
All we ae concerned is , **how does the speaker actually sound**.

Pedro suggests science has let us down, that science, if it was so intelligent, why can't science tell us which speaker is the superior and which the inferior sound???
Obvioulsy science is not the end all /be all.
Its only a  tool, human sensibilities come in  at the very end to say
Yea 
or worse
Nay
I say nay
to all/eversy xover design in the fq's ,,ohh say 800hz = 15khz.
Yeah I know thats a  massive chuck of our music.
As many of you know i make very long winded posts 
But actually I reduce them to make them more readable and so folks don't lose  interest. 
~~~So cut to the chase.
We accept high tech in every aspect of our lives.
You name it, super high tech is there,. Had you told us back in 1965, folks would be walking around with telephones, sending pics/videos,,we'd all laugh you at your face  as scifi fantasy.

~~~Long story short.

The new  wide band /high sensitivity speaker technology. What gives?
Why the denial it exists?
Why the fear to inquisite?
Why the lack of interest?
Why the rejection?

Speakers  will crown your system with beauty Or else render it as distortion/low fidelity.

Tweak/,od/upgrade all you want, at how much you care to spend $$$$$ ($40K!!!) on cables etc. 
Ain;'t going to make hardly even a  miniscle gain in sonics, if the speakers are ~~faulty~~  due to  low sensitivity.
Bass woofers, I'll grant low sens Seas and Scaspeaks high end woofers  a  stunning succcess.
Above 800hz,  I have issues with any driver neededing a  xover.
I tag these fq's with xovers. The Wet Blanket sound. Sounds mechanical, like   compressed music,, comming from a  box.
Squeezed, contorted, tiny soundstage, strained fq's  if vol is over 10 oclock. = fatigue/Coloration  in abundance.  
Many fq's of the source, missing in action. 
I am not suggesting  these new wide band is for everyones taste. Not at all. Only that we should at least give these wide band a   consideration as a  possible alternative to our old  traditional ideas.

Inqusisitiveness is a good thing in  all things audio. 
Without  a  healthy  curiousity, we putrefy , stagnate.
 Even  Worse
we might miss out on the super high fidelty we all hope to hear one day in our systems by this neglect  of the new high technology in speaker design. . 

.


 
mozartfan

Showing 4 responses by larryi

larryi
3,777 posts
 
While I don't dispute that speakers-- and the right choice to match one's particular taste and complement of components and the room acoustics-- is of primary importance, The choice of amplifier has a HUGE impact on the sound.  I have been surprise by how much certain amplifiers seem to elevate the quality of almost every speaker that is attached to that amp.  No doubt it has to do with my particular taste, but, it is amazing to me that certain amplifiers will almost always sound good to me with a wide variety of speakers.  For me, it is low-powered pushpull 6L6 amps that do the trick (particularly Western Electric 124-type amps).  

Likewise, there are certain speakers that seem to be "magically" transformed when coupled to the "right" amp.  I have heard speakers that I did not particularly like, become  dramatically better sounding when a particular amp replaced another amp of good reputation; synergy is obviously a big factor.  I would relegate amp choice to a minor role--to me, the right amp is WAY up there in importance.  
larryi
3,777 posts
 
If you cannot hear a meaningful difference between a 6L6 a KT120, a single ended 45 or a single-ended 2a3, a KT88, 6550, a 300b, etc., either something is VERY wrong with the particular amps, the rest of the system, the room, or the ability of the listener to appreciate the sound of tube gear.  What is probably NOT the case is that there is something wrong with the speakers because sonic differences would be obvious with almost ANY speakers.  

I happen to like many higher efficiency speakers, including a few single driver full range systems, but I hardly would insist that this is the only way to achieve satisfying sound.  Also, there are plenty of differences between the low-powered amps that I favor.  I own three different tube amps, the highest powered amp is a parallel single-ended 2a3 amp, followed by a pushpull 349 amp, and then the pushpull 45 amp (sort of guessing the order of power output, but, I believe none of the amps are rated above 6.5 watts/channel).  They all sound good, they all sound quite different from each other, and to me, they all sound MUCH better than any KT88/120/150 amp I've heard.  
larryi
3,777 posts
 
I can't follow the argument at all.  If making a cap change makes the differences in the amps very evident, how can you then say the amps all sound essentially the same?  
larryi
3,777 posts
 
Mozartfan,

Can you list, without acronyms, the specific speaker systems you are referring to as being state of the art, particularly ones that have no crossovers at all?  Aside from a small handful of cone driver speakers with just a single driver (Charney and Voxativ), I have not heard any that, given my taste and priorities, I would consider an acceptable set of compromises.  The other acceptable single driver systems were panel speakers (electrostatics), like the big Soundlab speakers (the biggest compromise with these speakers being the need to play them at somewhat high volume levels). 

I like systems with wide range drivers handling a big part of the upper bass through most of the treble range, probably because they minimize the negative effects of a crossover, but, a crossover is almost always a necessary item in a decent full range system.   Some of the systems I like employing such drivers include very old drivers (like the Jensen M10 fieldcoil driver) as well as modern drivers, including exotic drivers like the Feastrix field coil drivers, and Voxativ drivers.  There are a number of manufacturers using wide range drivers in multi-way systems that sound good to me, such as systems from Soundkaos and Trenner and Friedl.

 I happen to like very much systems employing compression/horn midrange drivers, particularly vintage drivers, like those by Western Electric and the International Projector Company.  Modern fieldcoil drivers from the likes of G.I.P. Laboratories (Japan) sound terrific too.  

If you heard just one example of a crossover "upgrade" that disappointed you, I don't think that there is enough data to generalize about crossovers in general.  If a speaker is not very good, or if a speaker IS very good (including the crossover supplied by the manufacturer), attempts at an upgrade may not work out.  If the "upgrade" consisted of simply putting in a more expensive part with the same electrical value, it will often be the case that the result is hardly a difference or even a negative result.  A local builder whose speakers I really like, totally HATES the sound of the expensive Mundorf caps; for his designs and particular taste, these are bad caps.  A good design is one that is voiced properly and that does not necessarily mean using more expensive parts.


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