interesting post!
Thanks yogiboy ...
Speakers 10 years old or older that can compete with todays best,
I attend High End Audio Shows whenever I get a chance. I also regularly visit several of my local High End Audio parlors, so I get to hear quite a few different speaker brands all the time. And these speakers are also at various price points. Of course, the new speakers with their current technology sound totally incredible. However, I strongly feel that my beloved Revel Salon 2 speakers, which have been around for over ten years, still sound just as good or even better than the vast majority of the newer speakers that I get a chance to hear or audition in todays market. And that goes for speakers at, or well above the Salon 2s price point. I feel that my Revel Salon 2 speakers (especially for the money) are so incredibly outstanding compared to the current speaker offerings of today, that I will probably never part with them. Are there others who feel that your beloved older speakers compare favorably with todays, newfangled, shinny-penny, obscenely expensive models?
Showing 5 responses by mahgister
Improving a system is an incremental long process , it was for me... Begininng with synergy between components , and then mechanical, electrical and acoustical embeddings controls and optimization ... In this incremental process , including experiments of various kind, there is error done but they are corrected by being perceived as such by their impact on some acoustic perceived factors... These optimization errors are not costly and anyway you cannot go 10 steps behind when you have reach some synergy between components because only one misstep will affect immediately , timbre , transients, dynamics, spatial chatacteristic of sound , immersiveness , bass , etc and this mistep will be perceived and you will correct it ... The only costly errors that i made was in the journey to reach good synergy between components by reading, and trials and errors etc ...The other errors which was costly was trying to upgrade my already good Sansui alpha 2 months ago for one of the best tube amps... Synergy matter when you upgrade , i learned it the hard way...i return "the upgrade" after one hour ( it was a used one component already broke in ) and i loose so much by post fees, customs, assurance, i call this lesson learned... my system is satifying completely , i tried to upgrade because i want to try this amplifier for 5 years and i wanted to know... Now i know... Dont upgrade when you are completely happy even by curiosity... 😊 In my one year of room acoustic experiments i go from better to better at each step... Each weeks of experiments taught me something and i was in awe because of the improvement each time for 50 weeks but i commited errors i corrected all along the path .... Was it perfect ? No not at all ,but there is not one gram of comparison between the same component in an untreated and especially uncontrolled room acoustically and in the same treated and controlled room... It was not a small change , it was a metamorphosis... The same will be true with better components than mine at any price ... Acoustic laws dont change because of the branded name of each components...It help to have good component or better one but Acoustics had his own laws ... I also experimented with mechanical vibration control with success at low cost... I also experimented with EMI shielding with my own homemade product and ionization , Schumann resonators and even other "tweaks" always with success... Always by homemade or very low cost product ( 10 bucks chinese Schumann resonators for example ).. I recommend creativity through experiments with NO EXPANSE at all or minimalistic ... We must learn not buy ... An error made in the system/room optimization process , is the deviation of the needle on the compass, each errors is corrected to push us in the right direction ... Dont be afraid of errors in experimenting then , but be afraid to PAY too much or to upgrade BEFORE you could know what you are doing ...
If a good satisfying system may cost low amount of money when the component are well chosen , as mine is ;it cost time, as mine had cost me one year full time and even more ... I am retired... Nothing is free ...
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All acoustic factors that contribute to a better sound are numerous they are all different but all are related acoustically ...The electronics of component and their design , the system /room acoustic , the psycho-acoustics specific ears filters of the owner and his specific audio journey and experience and experiments , and the specific working embeddings dimensions : mechanical,electrical and acoustical controls of the Ears/ room/system/house, by control here i spoke about electronical control but also often forgotten the mechanical controls , ALL aspects are important and differ in impact to begin with the specific synergy level between components as the first starting point ... Remember now this : there is a minimal acoustic satisfaction threshold SPECIFIC different for each of us , or M.A.S.T. to be remember easily and there is also an optimal satisfying acoustic threshold or O.S.A.T. similar for all of us by the way ...
The minimal and optimal tresholds differ by all the factors i described in the first paragraph above...Not only by price and evident design quality of the components ...But the two levels the minimal and optimal had something in common they represent in their price bracket/ sound quality ratio , a BALANCE between all acoustics and audio factors which are implied , one in a minimal way, the other in an optimal way ... Mike Lavigne seems to me along the years here with all his posts very happy and satisfied by his audio system/room ...He is on the ultimate OPTIMAL level of possible satisfaction, which is almost evident for everyone because of the quality of design and the room quality and his expressed knowledge ... His system is among the costlier one here... I am myself with a 700 bucks system/room , very happy and completely satisfied AS WELL AS HE IS ... I am on the MINIMAL level of possible satisfaction ...Which level when reached give to us music already with a good timbre, spatial aspects and immersiveness with my speakers as well as with my headphones... People in general want to improve our system, Lavigne or mine , the costlier here and the less costlier , without knowing all the factors enumerated in my first paragraphs... They even dont know how to tune a room , as someone here said to me that room tuning dont even exist, then i will invite people to not criticise anyone system... Think twice about what you know and what you dont know ...Perfection dont exist in musical and acoustic playback but trade-off , wise one and unwise one , wanted one and unwanted one ... Our ears/brain are not perfect they are efficient in their own specific way and history ... Remember : everybody must learn how to hear and listen and it is not given by gear upgrades mainly ... Psycho-acoustics science rule audio not the gear name or price... By the way i know how to improve my system drastically but at a price which will be 15 times at least my actual price...I cannot and i dont need it because of the M.A.S. T. i enjoyed... It is the same thing for Lavigne , it will be very hard to improve his system drastically and anyway he dont feel the necessity nor the urgency because he is on the O.S.A.T. side of audio... |
Japanese musical clubs favor altec_lansing and Tannoy too till today... Perhaps this means something....😉 https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/special-report-the-japanese-audio-industry/
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Incredible arrogance.... I was already confronted by arrogance and ignorance too from the same person for the same reason ...Mike lavigne because his system cost are one of the highest in audiogon and the more spectacular, myself at 700 bucks one of the lowest in audiogon; the two system with a claimed good sound quality experience by their satisfied owners in their own bracket S.Q. /price ratio .... Is it a coincidence ? Are we ignorant ? one ignorant by paying too much without the recommended DSP and me by paying not enough without the recommended DSP ... ( i used equalization for my headphone by the way and as Lavigne had already said i think DSP also may be a useful tool ) DSP of any kind is a tool or a component but not always necessary as a tool or as a component... The only necessary DSP as a component IN ALL CASE and for everyone in my opinion is the BACCH filters...It is more than a useful tool or a mere component , it is more than a mere equalization tool . it is a psycho-acoustic revolution in the making ... But even this BACCH filters does not replace room acoustic and room tuning mine or Lavigne...... Room tuning does not even exist in mijostyn opinion as he said to me, this is pure ignorance ... For example if you use some Helmholtz resonators grid, you tune the room pressure zones form and distribution by their parameters and location , you modify the room in some way not only the speakers response ...I call that room tuning...It can be made invisibly in the wall itself and esthetically etc ...Mine was homemade and unesthetical not perfect either but spectacularly transformative FOR ME ...At least i learned acoustic using my hands and ears... We cannot impose to others our diktat for their own acoustic experience, too much parameters are implicated...
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