2. speakers
  3. 158881-139155

Speaker shootout update; aggressive treble eliminating some (fairly?)

I've been trying out speakers in a complicated shoot out, both bookshelves and towers — all in my home with my gear. I'm looking for speakers obtainable up to about $4k but could go up (or down) a bit if the right thing came along.

Basic facts: All speakers were run in at least 100 hours. Room is 27 x 14 x 6.5 ceilings. Powering with all QS tubes, 60w, NOS, tube R2R dac, and decent cables. No terrible reflection points; room not overly live or dampened. REL R 328 sub available but I did most listening without it.

Recent auditions, type:

Klipsch RP 600-M (budget singleton of the group)
Fritz Rev Carbon 7 mk II (bookshelf, 2 way, soft dome)
Focal 936 (tower, 3 way, inverted metal)
Martin Logan Motion 60s XTi (tower, 3 way, AMT)

Coming soon:

Salk SS 6M (bookshelf, 2 way, beryllium)
Dynaudio Evoke 30's (tower, 3 way, soft dome)

Let me speak just to the problems, rather than what was good about the speakers. So far, I've found the Klipsch, Focal, and especially the Martin Logans were all too bright — forward, aggressive, "turn it down" treble.

The ML's were the most impossible to tame and hardest to listen to on more tracks. (I did a lot of hanging of towels and other dampeners and other soft things to try to see if I could bring them to heel. I varied the recordings used. Changed cables/wires. No luck.)

The Focals were occasionally too bright; their bigger problem was a bit too much energy in my small listening space. They were better when I plugged their ports with socks.

I'm looking forward to how the next two speakers sound. The Dynaudio towers, I notice, are 10 inches shorter and half the weight of the other towers; not sure what that might mean, but it could just be right size for my space. I'm looking forward to seeing if the Salks bring more detail to the treble without also being too rolled off or harsh.

Hearing is very personal for physiological and taste reasons. However, if anyone has any thoughts about why I might be experiencing some of the phenomena I am (harsh treble, especially) based on my room or gear, etc., that might help me understand factors I'm not fully appreciating. Thanks.


hilde45

Showing 6 responses by jackd

jackd
1,077 posts
 
@hilde45 

The Salks look great. Jim did his usual impeccable cabinet job.  With their size you are probably going to have to look at stands of 19" or 20" maximum like are recommended for the Harbeth C7 and 30.2.  I just completed a deal earlier today for a pair of Cherry C7-ES3's with matching custom cherry stands from Timbernation.  They've got multiple styles and pretty much can match any standard speaker finish.

https://timbernation.com/speakerstand.html  
jackd
1,077 posts
 
@hilde45 

A couple of photo's of the SS6's would be a nice thing.  Also check with Timbernation about custom speakers stand with the height and top plate dimensions to fit the Salk's.  Also multiple finish choices.
jackd
1,077 posts
 
@hilde45 

I don't think changing from the long wall to the short wall will do anything for tower speakers either especially if they are over the height of the average bookshelf and stand needed for proper ear level.  It should however make the room issues easier to tame as the space will be more defined. Whatever bookshelf you end up with be it the Salk, one of the Fritz's or others a lower stand and a lower adjustable chair should help.   A pair of bass traps in the corner, diffuser panels behind each speaker would be a start and then one of the cheaper rectangular panels for the first reflection point. Get the front baffle 36" from the rear wall and the sides two feet and work from there.  Either the Salk's or the Fritz's should love your QS gear as both Jim and Fritz use tube amps at home though Fritz is prone to changing up a lot like I am.  I have tried my Carrera's with six different amps and integrated's with two being tubes and they have shined with all of them.  Though I certainly don't need more speakers I have been really tempted by the pair of LS-7R's listed on Audiocircle at that price.
jackd
1,077 posts
 
@hilde45 

Would it not be worth trying, though some work, just swapping the location of the gear/couch and the bed?  Don't know often you actually have stay over house guest as opposed to how often you use your system but I don't it is in any way comparable. Also in reference to the new version of the Carbon 7 while still using a Scan Speak soft dome tweeter it is from farther down the line than those used in the higher models like the Rev 7SE and the LS 7 which use the Illuminator and Revelator tweeters.  I own the Carrera SE with the Transducer Labs beryllium tweeter and it is not bright so I don't suspect the newer variation with the Satori Be tweeter is either.  It may have just come down to a supply problem with Transducer Labs during the Pandemic. Also a help in that room might be to borrow an adjustable office/computer chair and adjust the height in small increments plus with the chair to the lowest setting you could use lower stands.  The suggestion of the foward tilt is also a great suggestion as you won't have to tilt that much but use Blu Tak under the speakers for safety. That along with an adjustable chair might help you narrow the problem down a bit. The SS6 may in fact be the speaker for you but you won't know it unless you get some sort of handle on that room with the speakers you have access to now.
jackd
1,077 posts
 
@hilde45 

I just finalized the deal this morning so I won't have them until later in the week but if the stands are built anything like my Timbernation rack being solid should be the least of your worries.  My five shelf rack weighs over 120 lbs and is built out of solid 2" maple.  The stands that are coming with the Harbie's look to be built of the same stock so they probably weigh around 40 lbs a piece. Call Chris on the phone and discuss it with him but remember he is two hours ahead of you. First thing is to decide on a lower or adjustable chair and have the wife make the ear measurements along with the measurement from the bottom of the cabinet to the middle of the tweeter.  One minus the other should give you the height of your top plate. Chris can then adjust the post length to get you the height you need.  I have always been curious about Harbeth but for some reason never tried them as I gravitated toward Reynaud instead.  Will be interesting to hear the contrast between the and the Carrera Be.
jackd
1,077 posts
 
I have driven the Carrera's with both the 30 wpc EL-84 based Music Reference RM-10 and the 40 wpc EL-34 based Mystere PA-11 with no problem with frequencies at either end of the spectrum.  Both amps were fronted by the Supratek Chardonnay so a similar compliment as hilde45's setup with a less power.  The speakers were set up in a 15' x19'x10' room 32" from the sidewalls and the front baffle 44" from the rear walls using a short wall setup.  So my point is the speakers are capable of balanced frequency reproduction Though the Carbon 7 Mk II will not quite match the Carrera note for note on either end it will be a well balanced speaker up to the capabilities of those specific drivers.  So 4 or 5 hz on the bottom end and less detail on the top end. 
More to discover