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Speaker positioning and center image depth

I’ve been in so many conversations with people who boast of the depth of the soundstage from a particular pair of speakers to fall well behind said speakers, and others who claim the sound is very much more forward for some speakers. For me, I’ve found that most times, it just depends on how the speakers are positioned in the room.

I find a combination of just slightly too much toe in and just not enough distance between speakers in relation to the listener create a more powerful and forward center image and potentially a narrower soundstage as the speakers end up not taking advantage of the side walls. On the other hand, having the speakers toed out too little at a larger distance from each other results in a more distant center image and at times loses clarity.

Distance from the walls also makes a huge difference here, as well as how well the room is treated. And there are many variables that will change the way a speaker projects the sound.

Of course, many speakers do a better job of imaging a particular way over others, but I’m not convinced of generalizations made about these projections (how forward vs deep a speaker sounds) in reviews or forum threads. For me, it usually has much to do with how it’s set up in the room.

That said, I do believe some speakers play incredibly large, and others small such that the thresholds (toe in, distances, etc) are all variable, which help a speaker work in some rooms better than others. And of course every speaker imparts it’s own sonic character, some more open and transparent and others more recessed and warm, etc.

I’m curious as to other peoples’ reactions and experiences with regards to speaker depth/forwardness, and if they agree with what I’m finding or if they believe the speaker has a much larger role than the room the way I am describing. I’m always looking to learn more.

 

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Showing 2 responses by newbee

newbee
4,751 posts
 

Why do you limit your observations to depth of center image? Why not depth of image at the extreme left and right? That's important too, no? What about basic speaker positioning issue of near field or distant/mid range. That too makes a big difference, no?

IMHO while speaker positioning, i.e. distance from walls and associated nulls, nodes, and reflections and their treatment are important, the most important ones are 1) a recording with the appropriate information, 2) the source electronics ability to pass this information through with minimal deviation from the recording, 3) and the electronics that drive the speakers (amp and pre amp) which have the ability to reproduce the most important frequencies to the reproduction of imaging with out distortion or emphasis. 

If you have THE recording, source, electronics and speakers then, and IMHO only then, can your worry too much about room set up IF your goal is to optimize imaging.

FWIW I've seen too many folks try to obtain some idealized imaging without even having a source/recording which can get them there (and there really are not that many extant). If you want to chase this holy grail down get "Depth of Image" by Opus 3 (long OOP its on a CD but the LP is better by far).

newbee
4,751 posts
 

bigtwin, I can understand what you have experienced but I think you (and others perhaps) may be missing the point about bringing the speakers out into the room. I'm using a equilateral set up with speakers about 9ft apart and 6ft from the wall behind them. I too have never been able to bring the front of the soundstage out into the room. It is always on the rear wall, BUT the difference as I experience it with most recordings is that the image begins at the rear wall and extends much further behind it. With the speakers closer to the wall this depth disappears substantially with the concurrent loss of resolution. 

And, as I said earlier if you want to hear what your system is really doing, soundstage wise, you need a recording in which the information is embedded. I referred to the Opus 3 recording called 'depth of image' for the obvious reason, but also because the recording is accompanied by the producers description of what you should hear from each cut on the disc. I've heard this recording on a great system and can tell you that it is all there. I've used this recording a a gold standard for setting up my system. I hate to admit this, but while I have worked hard for many years I've never fully achieved it fully. But hearing it initially, over a modest High End system properly set up, was an unforgettable revelation.  FWIW

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