rolox,
Very good post. Do you have any side (first) reflection panels? That may help dial in the soundstage better and then keep your speakers in the area where the bass is the best.
ozzy
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Wow! some very good information.
Placement guides are ok but use them only as a starting point. There is probably an infinite number of variables.
The best overall approach, at least to me, is, to experiment. When you hit the right placement, it all locks into place. You will know it. So don’t be afraid to move the speakers around and take good notes.
ozzy
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Huh? Can we stay on topic?
ozzy
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Thanks.
Every speaker has its sweet spot in each room.
Once you get it locked in, it really creates a very satisfying sound. You never know how good your system can sound until you find that spot, as frustrating as that project is.
ozzy
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Thanks all for the additional help.
The difficult part of all of this is the size, weight and shape of the speakers. It's not as easy as just measuring the sides etc. The Sopra 2's really have an exotic shape.
I have tried to zero in on exactly the same distances, side to side, distance to front wall, toe in, and listening position. I think I have it!
Funny though, just moving one dimension can throw off the other distances.
ozzy
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So as everything with this hobby (at least for me) changes with time, I have now toed the speakers (slightly) and yes, I now prefer them that way.
Although getting the symmetry right is very important.
ozzy
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ghdprentice,
Thank you for your comments. As much as I really like the Townshend stands, they did make it hard to find just that right spot.
Now, I will again move the speakers to reinstall the stands underneath them. But this time I am armed with measurements and duct tape...
BTW, my friends are old like me, best I could offer them is perhaps some oxygen. LOL!
ozzy
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I just had to get this right.
So, I removed the Sopra’s from the Townshend stands, it is just too hard to move them while on the stands.
I do believe I have zero’d in the soundstage!
What I have found is, again, I prefer no toe in. But it has been interesting. I used the 1/5 rule for centering the woofers from the sidewalls. But I liked a slightly different distance from the wall behind the speakers.
I also found that my room is not exactly rectangular, that is probably why I have had so much trouble.
Now I have the center image locked in, I think can feel Linda Ronstadt noise hairs!
ozzy
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Where I originally had my speakers, the vocals seemed to be a little fuller. (If my memory is correct). Now, with little toe in, they seem to be a little thinner sounding, but the soundstage is wider, and details are more apparent.
Which is correct? Or the best? I’ll keep fiddling.
ozzy
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This can be a maddening process. I researched many online demos and used various calculators showing where to place the speakers based on room dimensions. Most would put my speakers way too far into the room in both distance from back and side walls. Cardas method 1/3 or 1/5 Golden Ratio....etc.
So, I am still moving and trying. What I am having the most trouble is with the center image. Sometimes it seems to shift a little to the right. Do I move the speaker out/back, sideways...uggh! I have also noticed that not all recordings are centered.
I suppose mono recordings is the best to use.
BTW, even though the Townshends podiums under the speakers makes moving them around very difficult, I would not want to be without them. They are that important.
ozzy
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Some very interesting and helpful comments, thank you.
I'm still experimenting. I am leaning towards a very slight toe in. The Focal Sopra's are very difficult to measure distances from the walls due to them not having any real straight lines.
I think the idea of re-checking again after a few months is a good one. Not that I think the speakers will move (duh) but my preference may change.
ozzy
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No, it must be some other "rich guy".
It is amazing that when you really start dialing in the soundstage, just a 1/2" can throw off the center image.
ozzy
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Thanks for the reply.
What I have noticed is having the speakers aiming straight out does flatten the soundstage depth somewhat.
So always the tweaker, I decided to toe them in again (slightly). Now the question is how much, or little is the best? Never ending...
ozzy
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Yeah, I think all the rules as to speaker placement should just be considered as a starting point. We still need to experiment. Moving heavy speakers on stands like the Townshends is near impossible. But trying to place the Sopra's in the right spot while off the stands gave a different result. And needed To-In. Thus the need to be able to move them around on the stands.
I have tried the spikes that the Sopra’s came with, then Stillpoints and then the Gaia 1’s. They were an improvement over the ones provided with the Sopra’s, but the Townshends podiums are revolutionary. Do they justify the cost? For me they do.
ozzy
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So many great responses thank you. My room has been treated extensively. My room is 27 x 17 x 8. Three of the walls have exterior concrete. All of the walls and ceiling were made with separate studding and with 1/2" drywall with insulation behind them.
I have large 20" diameter tube traps in the corners and 7 Stillpoint Aperture ll’s located at the center and on the walls along with other wall treatments. Also, I have acoustic ceiling tile that is glued and stapled to the drywall. The speakers are 55" out from the back wall to the back of the speakers and are 37" from the wall side to the side of the speaker.
The wall behind my seating position is about 8 feet away and has a rack that holds over 6000 cd’s.
I was always under the impression that speakers should be toed in to dial in the soundstage. Obviously and to my surprise, with my room, speakers, equipment that is not the case.
ozzy
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Oh, BTW, the air bladders were purchased from Amazon. A very useful tool when needing to move (lift) large heavy speakers (on stands) with the help of the furniture sliders.
ozzy
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