Geph - good...maybe I'm not delusional. I just went back to the AQ arrangement. The differences (assuming I'm not imagining things) are pretty subtle and seem most noticeable in the first seconds of listening. It's an easy enough switch to make so I'll probably continue to mess with things. Play one track a few times listening to just a few measures back and forth.
Before I hit submit for the above, went back and forth a few times on an AA Bondy track (#2 from American Hearts) on Spotify. Definitely think tonal balance shifts a bit between the two configurations. I'd say bass is a little fuller with the AQ diagonal arrangement. Again it's subtle and I'm not sure how much is placebo (though I kind of lost track of which arrangement was from which company). Not sure I could pick it out in a double-blind test. But maybe.... |
BINGO that is exactly what I found. I mean you could not have said it better Notice I did not say one was beter then the other.just different Not sure which I like |
FWIW - I had been using the AudioQuest diagonal configuration Geph0007 describes above. After reading through the posts on the related bi-wire survey thread that MoFi started (this includes a link to the Nordost single wire for bi-wireable speaker recommendations as transcribed above, again by Geph) I reversed to the Nordost diagonal configuration. My jumpers are from Paul Laudati of Clear Day and non-directional as best I can tell. At any rate, they stayed as they were. I did think in my system, switching go the Nordost arrangement (positive to low frequency and negative to upper frequency post) resulted in a slightly clearer presentation. Tonally the AudioQuest arrangement seems "warmer" but maybe at the expense of clarity (provided by the Nordost method). Of course, in 6 months when I forget what I did today, I'll switch back to the Audioquest approach and swear things sound better. |
From Audioquest Note they say to put the pos to the high and neg to the low
When using a single set of full range cables with a BiWirable speaker, you
might as well do it properly … it costs nothing and makes a difference you
can hear. When using jumpers (factory supplied or replacements), be sure
to put both red and black connectors to the treble input of a 3-way or panelhybrid
. Bass is less sensitive to having the jumpers in the signal path.
For 2-way speakers, be sure to put the red connector to treble + and black
connector to bass -. This is the only way to preserve the tonal voice the
speaker designer intended.
If you do not BiWire, at the very least, connect a single set of speaker cables
as recommended above. Ideally, you should use a set of AQ PSC Jumpers
to make the BiWire jumper connections at the speaker. What about those
“free” shiny metal jumpers that came with the speaker? It’s entirely
accurate to describe these as “worth every penny you paid for them.”
Simply put, these are very poor sounding devices. |
I should just take off the back plate and tie the high and low together
From Nordost
Wiring Confi gurations
The correct wiring confi guration for a bi-wiring arrangement can be
readily established by experimentation, but in general, the best results
will be obtained as follows:
Connect the jumpers from the bass/mid terminals to the treble terminals,
following the guidance outlined above. Then connect the speaker wires
to the bass/mid terminals. This should be your default set up, generally
offering the greatest rhythmic integrity and mid-band clarity
Very occasionally the reverse arrangement, connecting to the treble
terminals can produce superior results. This is rare, but worth trying,
especially where exotic or hard to drive tweeters are employed
Often, the very best results are achieved using a diagonal connection.
This involves connecting the red cable to the bass/mid terminal and
the black to the treble, with the jumpers arranged accordingly, bass to
treble on the red (or +ve) side of the crossover, treble to bass on the
black (or -ve) side. This is slightly more confusing to wire, however, with
a little extra care and patience the results can be well worthwhile, and
once you are familiar with bi-wiring procedures this often becomes the
new default set up, offering greater air, transparency, dimensionality and subtlety |
Yes, draw it out and I think what I said will become clear. When you do that, keep in mind that current flows in a "complete circuit" from the amplifier to the speaker, then through the speaker, and then back to the amplifier. And keep in mind also that the speaker's crossover network will prevent the high frequency content of the signal from flowing through the low frequency driver(s), and will prevent the low frequency content of the signal from flowing through the high frequency driver(s).
Aside, that is, from frequencies that are in the area of the crossover point between drivers, where high frequency and low frequency drivers will both be reproducing the same frequencies to some degree. How wide a range of frequencies that area encompasses will depend on the slopes of the particular crossover. "Slopes" meaning 6 db/octave or 12 db/octave or 18 db/octave, etc., which describes how sharply the crossover cuts off frequencies that are not near the crossover frequency.
Regards,
-- Al
|
Thank you AL Can you expand on that at all? I have to draw that on paper to see it I had PSB Goldi and Mirage m7si were it was easy to take the back plate off and tie the high and low together and then put it back to riginal. I felt the speakers sounded closest to the croos hookup thast way. |
I agree but this website is tiny % of people who buy speakers Many audio guys do not do it .In fact I read an article last summer were it was mentioned that some spekaer makers are going to go back to a pair of terminals. THANK YOU!! I like the Vandersteens better when I went in and tied the hi and low together It tried the lesser (Oval 12) bi wires on several speakers and my Oval 9s with any junmper sound better to me. |
At the very least, its given serious consideration. I think the big issue is weather to use 2 single runs of lesser cable, or one better cable and jumpers. Personally, I take it on a case by case basis. My Vandersteen's need to be biwired for best sound. My Wilson's don't even have the option. With most other speakers, I usually prefer one higher quality run over 2 lesser cables.
Also, I was referring to this website in particular. You'll probably find that more people biwire here, than anywhere else. Another factor to consider, at least here, is that people often way overspend on cables. |
"For many years now speakers come with 4
terminals for bi amp/bi wiring. research has shown few
people do either but it continues."
"What research are you referring to? On this web
site the opposite is most likely true. Most people biwire if
the speakers allow for it."
Zd542... you think so? Maybe we should do a new thread
and see. I haven't bi-wired in decades, even if my
speakers allowed it.
IMHO, good quality jumpers and good quality speaker
cables will almost always sound better.
I'm going to start a new thread and ask this very
question... |
"For many years now speakers come with 4 terminals for bi amp/bi wiring. research has shown few people do either but it continues."
What research are you referring to? On this web site the opposite is most likely true. Most people biwire if the speakers allow for it. |
The diagonal configuration you refer to in no. 3 results in low frequency currents and high frequency currents each having to go through one jumper during their round-trip from the amp to the speaker and back. While when connecting both conductors to either the bottom or the top, as described in nos. 1 and 2, one of those currents would be going through two jumpers, and the other through none.
However, assuming good contact integrity, good quality jumpers, jumpers that are minimal in length, and assuming the equipment is in an equal state of warmup when the different configurations are tried, I have no idea why or if the diagonal configuration would sound significantly different than the other two configurations in most cases.
Regards,
-- Al
|
