JB, Thanks for that URL. If the mat is made the way they claim, it might be very effective, and it is quite reasonable in price.
Ct, I kind of regretted that remark; it's the kind of thing one can say in face to face conversation with a friend but might be taken the wrong way on the internet. I meant no offense to the previous post-er, only good fun. Glad it made someone laugh. It made me laugh too. |
I second either the Boston Audio Mat2 or the SAEC SS300 mat, with a slight nod in favor of the BA one. I use it on my SP10 Mk3. |
Downunder, I used a BA Mat1 for quite a while on my Lenco platter. It's excellent in that application, but I found that the Mat2 is far better than the Mat1 on my SP10 Mk3. I have not tried the Mat2 on the Lenco, because now the Mat2 "belongs" to the Mk3. I would guess you will like the Mat2 better than the Mat1, for your P3. (By the way, if you hear of a P3 for sale, let me know.)
One thing I don't like so much about the BA mats is that they tend to slip against the platter. That is not good for those of us who worry about torque and stylus drag. What good is a powerful motor if the platter mat is slipping, even a tiny bit? So I use a very small piece of Scotch Tape along the rim, to prevent slippage on the Mk3. On the Lenco, I used double sided tape, between mat and platter.
Dover, I never met a record clamp I could really love. I do occasionally use the SOTA clamp, but I almost never actually clamp it. I just sit it on top of the spindle so as to dampen vibrations just by virtue of its mass. Yes, it's rather light in weight for this application, but I always have found that the really heavy gravity-dependent record weights suck life out of the music. On the other hand, I don't own any of the very heavy copper or other metal mats. The SAEC SS300 (my only metal mat) is quite a bit lighter than the CU180. I think it weighs only a bit more than the stock rubber mat made for the SP10 Mk3. The Kenwood L07D uses a 5-lb stainless steel "platter sheet" that is part and parcel of the platter itself, altho it is removable. I don't like the OEM Kenwood record weight either, for its effect on the sound of the L07D. |
Raul, I freely admit that what you say may be true. I believe it myself. Nevertheless, I do not like heavy record weights. (I said nothing at all about vacuum hold-down; you impute to me an opinion I do not hold. Nor did I say I prefer metal mats; as you know, I am not using any metal mat except the one designed to be part of the L07D platter) It is my opinion that the analog/vinyl medium is so full of imperfections at all levels, from recording venue to playback system, that sometimes by serendipity one "distortion" can complement another, with the net result that the listener is more pleased, the sound is more "real". I know you detest the "I like it" school of thought, but there it is. Live music can be very "ragged" and full of life; I do not want to use a device that removes that possible sensation completely, as do many very heavy record weights and peripheral rings. If you want to do that in the interest of removing "distortion", that is your choice.
I am a scientist by profession. You have no idea how far from real science is this art of reproducing music at home. It's nearly impossible even to do a valid "experiment" in home audio. |
Then why not sit on the f***in' thing? Be my guest.
"Resonance" is one of the most used and abused terms in audio. Like I said in reply to Raul, the theoretical advantages of record dampening are obvious. I only know that when I do it using the available mechanisms, most of the time I do not like it. So I don't do it. (Most of the time.) Same goes for hitting myself in the head with a hammer. I could counter with some equally hypothetical arguments about why record weights might not be so good, but I believe we are speaking past each other (plural), and it would only lead to more misunderstanding. The OP asked about platter mats, and I have offered my opinions. |
I like the Herbie's business. They sell a lot of nice accessories for reasonable prices, but I would not rate their tt mat in the same league with the best of the others that have been mentioned. In my mind, therefore, the mat is a false economy. For less than $200 more you can have the Mat2. Since the SP10 (Mk2 or 3) is worth a few to many thousands of dollars, it does not make sense to save a few hundred on something as crucial as a platter mat. That's just my opinion developed over a few decades of looking for least expensive ways out. I stopped thinking that way. I do respect your opinion which may differ from mine as far as ranking the Herbie's mat. (I do own a Herbie's mat, by the way.) |
Downunder and Kmc, I have not heard any Krebs-modded SP10s. Perhaps they bring the Mk2 closer to the Mk3. However, IMO between the unmodified versions, the Mk3 is indeed far and away superior to the Mk2, albeit the Mk2 is excellent. It doesn't take 5 minutes of listening to know that. This difference between Mk3 and Mk2 makes sense, because of the vast price difference between the two in the current market. I am curious to know how the Dobbins The Beat compares to Mk3, myself. Clearly, he was influenced by the Mk3 in designing The Beat.
Kmc, All I can recall is that a head to head comparison of the Boston Audio Mat1 to the Herbie's mat led me to use the former, but this may have been on my restored Lenco. Don't think I did a head to head on the Technics. On the Technics, I compared an SAEC to the BA Mat2, and the latter won narrowly. Thus I ended up with Mat1 on Lenco and Mat2 on SP10 Mk3. On matters of this sort, I tend to make a decision and not look back. |
Chris, Have you considered that part of the possible benefit you perceive from copper or copper-containing mats is related to shielding of the cartridge from EMI radiated by the motor? I doubt this is much of an issue for the Mk3, with its massive copper-containing platter (and maybe that's why it contains copper), but it certainly could theoretically help the Mk2. For the Kenwood L07D, the cognoscenti know to add such a shield, even though the platter is already stainless steel, a pretty good shield. I personally heard an improvement, removal of a kind of faint dull coloration, when I added an LP-size shield between the platter and the L07D "platter sheet" (which is 5 lbs of stainless steel). I made it out of TI Shield. |
Td, That's the first I have ever heard of a Boston Audio Mat being warped. Both my Mat1 and my Mat2 appear to the eye to be perfectly flat, and certainly there is no tell-tale sign of warpage when they are spinning. I trust your judgement, but be sure there is no other possible cause of your perception that yours is warped. If it IS warped, BA should take it back and exchange it for no cost, IMO.
One other thing: Why do you deem it to be so important to maintain the exact same thickness as the OEM rubber mat? A slight tweak of your VTA should take care of any minute difference between the BA and the OEM mats, and placing the rubber mat in between the BA and the bare platter will probably alter the sound, for good or ill.
Considering the materials of which they are made, I cannot imagine a BA mat warping post-manufacture. It could conceivably have been warped as a manufacture defect, I guess.
Chris, would love to know what you think of the two Mk3's, with vs without the Krebs' mods. (Of course, there are nothing but positive reports from other sources of which I am aware.) |
Double-sided carpet tape. |
Just about anything with the slightest bit of stickiness will do the trick. You could probably use grape jelly.
But the 3M product is a good idea. |
Romy and Michelle will be pleased. |
Td, As to the carpet tape, yes, only a few tiny pieces do the job more than well enough. On my Mk3, I was too anal about leaving goop on the platter, so I just used small bits of scotch tape around the lip. Two tiny pieces placed so as not to touch the top surface of the BA Mat2, just its edge and the edge of the platter itself. |
