then you haven't heard enough speakers. |
Kosst I guess I should've said you need big drivers and efficiency. If you have both of those attributes it will deliver in spades.
If you don't have the size you need much more than one driver and then generally you lose out in the imaging, staging and coherency department.
I say generally because I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule. I just haven't heard them.
If I were the OP I would look at Tannoy's or Altec 604 Based speakers.
Or a pair of altec model 19, voice of the theatres or Valencias.
In fact if you look at vintage stuff those attributes are very common. It's only when they started designing speakers with solid-state in mind that we lost our way. Efficiency was down, they started trying to make smaller boxes with wife acceptance factor in mind and then we ended up with more polite sounding speakers.
You can't cheat physics... |
If you can get volti in your budget jump on it! Amazing speakers. |
I don't know the ESS and have never heard that particular model of the focal. In my experience paper cone, large diameter, efficient drivers offer some of the best tone and impact in the business.
Again you can't cheat physics. |
Rbstenho I agree speakers with multiple smaller woofers can go very low and clean in the bass. However these speakers almost always are less efficient so they do not have the best dynamics. The op asked for explosive dynamics and that is where you need efficiency.
People are confusing deep bass and dynamics in this thread |
Hddg 's suggestion is a good one. |
Johnk is right, for extreme dynamics you need horns period
however there are dynamic speakers that do it better than others and they don't have multiple small woofers period.
Kosst the the reason they don't make them like that is because they don't have to. It's much more expensive and complicated . They had limited power with tubes so they had to use horns to get the sound levels. Then came the transistor and ruined everything. They figured that power was cheap so they could make inefficient smaller speakers and get the sound levels with the power. But in the trade-off we lost the dynamics.
To sum it up it's not that we have progressed beyond and made a better mouse trap it's just that the way they do it now is cheaper. |
kosst what horns have you heard? Horns can image just fine. A friend of mine has a pair of vitavox they will just blow your mind with the sound and imaging.
I have had numerous Tannoy's for high-frequency driver is a horn. As well as 604, same deal. Those are two of the best imaging speakers out there.
I currently have a gigantic pair of Oris horn's and they pinpoint image with the best of them.
There's a lot of misconception about horns out there and I hate to see it perpetuated. Horns can and do sound amazing |
I can definitely agree the recording is very important. I can also see why somebody may say horns are not for them as they are too big and too expensive. But don't dismiss them as honky and not worthy of a good sound, that is blatantly wrong! |
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I'm not saying only....
you could also go with efficient speakers with large woofers.
those 2 options are your only route to take for the ultimate in dynamics.
And again I'm not sure about the Jbl horns that you heard but normally horns actually produce far less distortion than other speakers. |
Even the 511 can sound good if it's properly damped. |
What are your speakers phusis? |
Sorry kosst, again pretty much every point in your last post is wrong. Horns sound better at all volumes due to much lower distortion. The driver simply is not working hard.
You need to get out and hear some good horns! |
And that's an excellent post helmotech |
Phusis excellent explanation which I cannot find any fault with.
Larry good point as well, there are bad implementations of horns which generally I find to be in the cheaper PA realm |
Kosst it's not that I think they are the only viable way, it's that when you post blatantly wrong information that I feel the need to correct it. This way when people read these threads in the future hopefully they won't be misled. There is far too much misinformation about horns out there already. |
Phusis I just checked out Simon mears and those look like some beautiful speakers you have! I bet they sound fabulous! |
Kosst. Actually it's not my cult, my speakers are not all out horn's. Only the tweeter is a horn, the mid and bass are regular dynamic cones.
But I have owned quite a few speakers many mid efficiency like Vander Steen, reference 3A, Dynaco, Tannoy's, Polk SDA's
Ive owned low efficiency panels such as the Apogee divas with high-powered solid-state
And I have owned hybrid horns but where the horn covers most of the frequency spectrum down to about 200 Hz.
Trouble is I had to blend a woofer and a sub to those and felt like I couldn't get it 100% so I am moving away from them. I just can't stand to listen to you postulate about something you obviously know absolutely nothing about. My pet peeve is going on these forums and seeing all this misinformation by people who speak with total authority.
Just admit you're wrong and that you've had a very little or perhaps no experience with horns. |
Kosst you say "at the cost of focussed dispersion". I find it odd that you regard that as a negative. I myself and plenty of others that I know regard that as one of the positives of a horn. That way you get less unwanted room interactions. Definitely not good for entertaining though as the sweet spot is small. Anyhow I understand that you're saying you don't like horn's and I'm completely fine with that, to each their own. It's just when you're saying things that are blatantly false that I feel the need to set the record straight. |
