SOTA NOVA, HR-X VPI, Technics 1200G recommendations?

How it's going @chungjh , do you like your Technics ? 

If you will buy Technics:
It's not necessary to replace stock tonearm of the SL1200G, give it at least a year of listening and replace the arm only if the stock arm disappointing you for some reason (it's a very good arm for the money). 

You can buy new IKEDA VTA base, it’s the same. The original B-60 is old and very hard to find (even replica). 

I think the FR64fx is built just like an FR64S, only with lighter materials, but for sure the FR64S is a dynamic balance tonearm, not a static balance type.

Right @lewm
Same dynamic balance spring can be found if "FX" models.
What’s new in 66 FX series is banana shaped arm tube (unique for 66fx only).

I want to clarify things about Technics SP-10 mkII:

-You don’t need that old and fragile obsidian plinth at all, you can make a bigger custom plinth with many blank armboards for whatever tonearm (including 12 inch) with any diameter of the mounting hole. 

-AT pneumatic insulators under the plinth is a must and you don't need any isolation platforms, just a good rack.

-Great alternative to CU-180 and CU-500 is lightweight mat SAEC SS-300


p.s. All pictures above made by myself, it’s my ex Technics and stuff.

Removable headshell is amazing option!

I didn’t damage any cartridge on Reed 3P (without removable shell), but it’s a challenge to swap carts on such arms. If you want to use just one cartridge then it’s ok.
But I got many cartridges and many tonearms. I like and enjoy using tonearms with removable headshells and DIN connectors.

Some outstanding tonearms are: Ikeda IT-345, FR-64fx, 66fx, 64fx PRO, 64s, Lustre GST-801, Victor UA-7082, Technics EPA-100 mk2 and much cheaper Denon DA-401 for high compliance carts. All with removable headshells!

I can't disagree more, because I'm still searching for the "best" cartridge and I tried over 60 of them (new and old, mm/mi and mc). Using 4 different tonearms is better than using one. 

It was an illusion that I could use one great cartridge on one great tonearm, this is the reason why my Reed 3p "12 inch is not in use now. This is the reason why my most expensive modern LOMC are not in use now. 

In my perspective I only discovered something more interesting, more involving and it wasn't a compromise in sound at all. 

As I mentioned in my previous post, with tonearm (with removable headshells) like Ikeda IT-345, FR-64fx, 66fx, 64fx PRO, 64s, Lustre GST-801, Victor UA-7082, Technics EPA-100 mk2 and much cheaper Denon DA-401 ... no one can go wrong if they are in use with properly matched cartridges. I have all those arm and very happy about performance. 



 

I must admit the comparison between a high class toneams is very subjective and should not be taken seriously (at least for beginner), unless a buyer compare by himself in his own system with his own records. The key point is a CARTRIDGE, it must be the same cartridge and turntable and each time it must be perfectly matched cart and tonearm.

TriPlanar, Reed, Kuzma, Schroeder, Durand ... are all high class modern tonearms, they are all must be great, the rest is personal preferences.

All these tonearm are extremely expensive!

There are absolutely amazing tonearms from the golden age of analog that cost 50-70% less compared to new high-end tonearms. Sometimes it’s hard to detect why they are cheaper than new high-end tonearms.

I remember I was in the situation like Jay many years ago, the starting point for me was Technics EPA-100 with ZYX AIRY III MC (and Technics MM carts like 205c mk4) and then modern Thomas Schick 12 inch tonearm and SPU cartridges (then some vintage MC and MM). Schick tonearm is so beautiful that it was hard to resist, the price was more than affordable. The next step was Reed 3p "12 Cocobolo (I don’t know any other tonearm in the universe that allow me to adjust absolutely everything on the fly including azimuth). But to get Reed for affordable price (demo unit) I decided to travel to Vilnius, Lithuania to meet up with the Reed Team in person! I bought their used demo version with huge discount! Normally I would never buy a tonearm like Reed, because official retail price was something like EUR 5000!

If the budget is not a problem my advice is to buy one modern and one vintage tonearm and compare by yourself with appropriate cartridges.

This hobby is about fun after all, there are so many great tonearms and cartridges out there.

All cartridges are:

-Hight compliance
-Mid compliance
-Low compliance

1) Most of the LOMC are low or mid compliance (very few MC are high compliance like Ortofon MC2000 for example)

*A low compliance cartridges must be used with superheavy tonearms.

2) Most of the MM/MI are mid compliance or high compliance (very few are low compliance like Nagaoka for example).

*A high compliance cartridges (in theory) must be used with very lightweight tonearms.

There are limits in every category of cartridges, and using a mid compliance on mid mass tonearms is not always the best solution. A compliance alone will tell you nothing about sonic characteristics of a certain cartridge. It can be a perfect tracker (high compliance), but boring as hell. A low compliance MC also can be boring.  

And don't forget that you can't use dynamic compliance measured at 100Hz (all Japanese cartridges) for calculations! 

All calculations must be made with 10Hz compliance figure only. So the compliance must be converted first from 100Hz to 10Hz. Japanese manufacturers never publish compliance figure at 10Hz. 

I have a perfect original Micro Seiki CU-180, actually two of them at the moment. The price only goes up every year. It’s very hard to find CU-180 without scratches. Not interested in replicas, I like vintage original gear in mint condition. It makes me happy :)) 

I think Technics philosophy is very simple:


1) compact plug and play unit is new 1200 series (great price from $900 per unit like mk7, $1700 for GR and $3500 for G).


2) reference “R” series for people who would like to use their own plinth, different tonearms (2 or even 3 at the same time) they have just the drive (SP-10R) with external power supply. The motor is the same as 1200G series. And when the buyer would like “everything reference class” from Technics they got complete system called SL1000R with SP10R drive, plinth, tonearm.


In my opinion, people who always blabling something about “vibration” are living in the earthquake area, probably right on top of the vulcano or very close, becase I really don’t understand what they are talking about!? Using over 6 turntables at home I never ever noticed any audible problem with vibration, I’m using custom made metal racks on parquet floor. 

Vibration is a problem on the dancefloor packed with 500 jumping people near 10 000 watts sound system - this is where turntable definitely must be seriously isolated. But even there you will see Technics DD in use!

But at home, when it’s just you and your system .... What vibrations are you guys talking about? Manufacturer already solved everything for home use when turntable was designed by professional engineers. They got their isolation feet (dramatically upgraded 1200 new series), also on SL1200 they can be replaced with isonoe suspended feet if needed.


In this high-end industry nobody want “good enough”, they always want “better”, but then it’s the road to infinity if you have money to pay more and more

Dance floors are usually concrete so, there is never an issue with foot fall skipping.

Usually wooden floor if we’re talking about nice small venues, but there is an issue with floor shaking (or stage shaking) if it’s not a warehouse with concrete floor or a club in the basement. But in all those public venues at least 100 people are moving and dancing.

When we are listening at home we’re normally in the listening chair and nothing going on. 1-3 people chilling in the room while some record spinning on the turntable. I assume we have a good wooden table or a metal/wooded rack on spikes for turntable and I believe there are no neighbors hammering the floor or the wall while we are listening to the music. So what kind of vibrations audiophiles are talking about ? On microscopic level it must be absolutely irrelevant for a proper turntable, because it was designed for use just like this without anything special under the table. 

@chakster, if you have 100 people dancing on a bad floor the Technics will fail badly. DJs use them because they are cheap and they have a lot of torque. Not to mention that they put an oscillating magnetic device right under a very sensitive magnetic pick-up. No scientist in his right mind would ever do such a silly thing:-)

@mijostyn I’m been playing vintage records for over 25 years and got paid for this job, traveled all over Europe and the whole Russia, worked on radiostations and hosted my own radioshow, invited artists from Japan, Europe and USA to spin rare Soul records in my town. I also produced records pressed in Detroit on the same pressing plant where Motown pressed their Soul in the 60s. I’ve been using Technics all my life and still have a pair of upgraded SL1210mk2 (they are not in my main system). I was surrounded by dancing people all my life and they danced to the 70’s Soul 45s played with Grado DJ200i MI cartridges on Technics turntables, when we hosted our own Soul parties I brought my external Grado phono stages and edjusted EQs of the main system by myself or with a help of professionals. Even in the early 90s when SL1210mk2 retail in Panasonic stores in Russia was $450 it wasn’t cheap at all. Now a brand new mk7 cost 3 times as much locally and it’s not cheap for ‘normal people’. Isonoe footers designed to solve bass feedback on old SL1200, but Technics redesigned their stock feet on new mk7, GR, G. Needles does not skip at 2g tracking force even if 100 people dancing in front of the deejay in the bar on wooden floor. Same with cheaper Pioneer PLX-1000 turntable for example (I tried when i was in Paris).

Before super powerful and stable Technics SL1200mk2 became a Disco standard worldwide, Garrard and Thorens were DJ turntables! In Studio 54 in NYC you can see Thorens, and Garrard were everywhere in UK. Technics put them into dust forever.

A lonely audiophile sitting alone in front of his system in the dark corner of his room and still thinking about vibration from outer space or what??? I don’t know why people think those butchers wooden block is necessary under their turntables, properly designed turntable is already very well isolated for home listening (they are heavy) if you are not place them right on subwoofer.

My Luxman PD-444 in the main system is quite heavy, suspended, sitting on superheavy metal rack on spikes. No feedback or vibrations that I can detect.

@chakster,  Michael Fremer liked some carbon fiber mat on Technics 1200G. Do you think CU-180 is better? How do you handle warped records? Periphery ring?

I don't have warped records in my collection, I use weight or clamp on top. 

Mr. Fremer do not review vintage analog gear, you can read his opinion only about new gear available today from dealers, shops etc. 

Micro CU-180 designed in the 70s, you can read about it from audio enthusiasts on various forums, but not from professional reviewers like Mr. Fremer. 

I have all 3 mats that I like:

1. SAEC SS-300 -very nice aluminum lighweight mat 
2. MICRO CU-180 -very expensive superheavy vintage copper mat

3. The Mat from Sakura Systems - this is brand new graphite mat for $250 


Do not overestimate the importance of turntable mat, mat will never change the sound as much as a cartridge for example. 

My aversion to direct drive turntables comes from pretty extensive listening tests back in the late 70's early 80's. The universal opinion was that direct drive turntables sounded inferior to the best belt drive turntables. 

Where is the list of Direct Drive turntables you are talking about? After 30-40 years did you ever try again? 

I don’t care what car do you have, but you can’t even remember the names of the turntables and your experience with some unknown direct drive is from the 70s!

Reference direct drive are all from Japan from Denon, Victor, Pioneer, Technics... I assume you neved tried any good Japanese direct drive from those brands, I want to remind you that top models from those brand were extremely expensive in the 70s/80s.

Also Direct Drive are not the same. Drive itself does not have a sound and what you hear is a sound of tonearm/cartridge.

You can recall your cartridges and tonearms maybe? @mijostyn

Well nothing new from you, it's not necessary to mention your 911 car in every post about turntables, cars and turntables are not related to each other. If you like a turntable that looks like coffin with a belt then it's nothing but your own preferences.

You're right, I forgot you're still listening to 78 rpm, just like during the World War 1 :)) 

So when you compare your current Sota to something you can't even remember (and do not own anymore) it's very "helpful" for others. It's a perfect test, the only problem is that it's just in your imagination.   

If you will look at the images of turntables and some other audio gear that I like, you will see only state of the art design. Even if it's old it's still like new, I do not buy junk. Works flawless for me for many years, no problem. 

You can cut yourself a mat from a piece of paper if you like it soft :)

But I would rather buy another Micro CU-500 Copper Mat if I can find it in MINT condition.    

I see one common problem in modern equipment, most of the designers have no taste (imo). 

Regarding "antique" cartridges, let me show you my latest purchase, believe it of not, but it's modern Shelter 5000 LOMC. I think it's beautiful. 

 

Copper mat cost more than your turntable (if you don’t have something special), look at the price for Artisan Fidelity new pure copper mat, it’s $1200.

Micro Seiki CU-180 in Mint condition will cost the same, but it was made 40 years ago in Japan (so it’s rare). 1.8kg is too heavy for some turntables. I’m using CU-180 on Luxman PD-444 and it’s superb mat!

For $250 you can buy graphite mat from Sakura System (latest version of Boston Audio Mat) and it’s great mat too, but without wow factor of Micro Seiki.

SAEC SS-300 Is great vintage mat with much more complicated design than Sakura System “The Mat”. SAEC is amazing mat and it cost $350-550 when condition is like new.


Rubber is worst ever material for the mat, and cork is just like $15 felt mat (it’s really nothing).

I think that’s why luxman pd 121a I’m using sound so different from rest of dd. the speed control. is soso.. but the platter is thick and heavy. and somewhat more quiet..quite a shocker when the result is very natural highly detailed and round.. even with a cheap MM. eleptical.

Never tried PD-121, my only Luxman is their top PD-444.
SAEC is the best for Luxman platter because the platter edge is higher than its inner side. SAEC is the opposite (look here). And this is a top side.

Micro CU-180 diameter can be too big (there is a little tolerance in diameter according to the manual), sometimes it can’t fit! This is my cu-180 on my lux platter. And the side view.

And Sakura Systems THE MAT is just perfect for LUX platter size.

There is no stress at all for DD motor, but if you don’t want to scratch your record sirface on a metal mats (flipping it when the platter is on) you have to press stop button first. If your mat is felt mat (slipmat) you don’t have to worry about it, because felt mat can’t damage your vinyl even if you will rotate the record to opposite direction on the spinning plater. This is why deejay using felt mats only (slipmats) on Technics.


I don’t use felt mats on any of my turntables in the main system, so I can flip the records only when rotation is off.

@anthonya 

lucky me u said that..@chakster. nearly bought the cu platter lol thanks

Yes, I had to sell one CU-180 to Technics owner in UK simply because the diameter was slightly bigger (within Micro Seiki tolerance) and it was impossible to fit on Luxman PD-444 platter. But another CU-180 was fine! Right now I have two Micro Seiki CU-180, my spare still in the box, I could try to fit on luxman platter. But cheaper alternative is SAEC mat, stunning performer on PD-444 (I think I have 3 of them NOS). 

You’d better ask your seller

Well, maybe because I never used a shitty turntables in my system, also made custom racks exclusively for them. And with a good metal mats on my direct drives everything was good.