Sonic Frontiers to Conrad Johnson .


I have a Sonic Frontiers Power 2 amp and Line 1 Pre-amp hooked to B&W 801 III. I want tube sound- warm, rich, liquid. I don't care about accuracy, I want the sound to be inviting like I remember from long ago. I don't want the stereo to drive me from the room. I changed the tubes in the Line 1 to Brimmars- it helped but did'nt go far enough for me. I also hook up the PS Power Plant 300 to the Pre-amp and while making it a little more dimensional seems to lean out the sound. The question is what brand of equiptment would you trade the SOnic Frontiers gear for to give me the warm inviting tube sound that I crave? I'm leaning towards a Conrad Johnson LS16II for a pre-amp. And perhaps replace the Power 2 later w/ a CJ amp. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
riceqx2

Showing 4 responses by newbee

Well, you could always take a step back to the SFM 160's. They are a classic tube amp design. They are not near as cold sounding as the Power 2. The are very resonsive, tonally to tube selection and powerful. I run mine with SED 6550's and EI 6DJ8's and get a full, detailed sound, which errs off neutrality slighly to the warm side. I saw someone advertise a pair on AGon recently for about 1500. I have used these on Paragons, Quad 63's, and most recently Tylers, all to great effect. But, I haven't heard them with your B&W's.
FWIW you are not the first person who tried to put together a system based on magazine reviews and ended up with something hard to listen to for more than a few minutes. Magazine reviewers seem to always be impressed with "detail", the wow factor! Mostly what they are hearing is excessive detail, detail that is not in balance with the detail on the source. It starts with the sources and ends with the speakers. I don't know how good you can make those B&W's sound, but you won't make them warmer with the SF Line and Power amps. These were just plain cold, tonally speaking.

You don't ID your sources, but I expect from you other selections, if based on mag reviews, they could also add to the brightness you hear. What are they anyway?

Additionally, you don't discuss at all your room and speaker/listening positions and what you have done in your room to make your system sound its best.

All of these things play an important role in your end result. Unfortunately its not as simple as just plugging in a new pre-amp and amp based on others opinions.

If you want to lay it all out here I'm sure many knowlegable people will be happy to help you, but IMHO as it stands now all you will get is responses which my be of no benefit to you whatsoever, including mine.
Its not really so much about money as the general direction that tube audio has taken in the past 10+ years. All of the majors, ARC, Sonic's Frontiers, and CJ have moved away from the "warm" sound of tube amps from the 80's and early 90"s.

Its my belief that they were trying to respond to complaints of loose base, warm midrange and rolled off highs, all of which to some extent obscured some detail. Resolution, extended highs, and a tight bass became the priorities of most modern tube units. Some folks will say that CJ's are warm(er) but in comparison to what. When I got my ARC SP10 in 1983 no one would have called this a "warm pre-amp" but today, in comparison to modern pre's from ARC or just about any manufacturer you might call it romantic! Same for tube amps but maybe less so. If you want to get that old warm tube sound your going to have to buy some old tube equipment. If you had less demanding speakers you could get one of these new units made in China that put out about 40 tube wts but that wouldn't be near enuf for your speakers. But, for example, that little Primaluna is a good old fashioned big warm tube unit.

Some of the classic tube pres and amps still bring fairly decent prices 15 to 20 years latter and often they need to be re capped, etc. Think ARC and CJ both. But there are others......have fun exploring the internet. :-)
I'm glad you have sourced your problem. I discovered the same reason for lack of bass with Quad 63's some years ago. Couldn't stand them, took them off their stands, put them on the floor and they became a "full" range speaker! Mid/upper bass suckout from loss of floor reinforcement which the designer incorporated into the initial design.

Now that you have your attention on the speakers and their placement, if you have not already done so I would suggest that you do some reading up on proper placement of the speakers and listening position, how to avoid or take advantage of room nulls and nodes, taming first reflections, adjusting speaker toe in, ad infinitum. Buy yourself a Radio Shack SPL meter and a test disc and learn how to use it to your advantage.

This should keep you busy for a year or so and in the meantime you won't waste any money on new equipment. When you're done I suspect you will be amazed! :-)