geoffkait ... get this, Kramer dude wanted my customer to pass ten consecutive blind tests. That means in a row. I ask you, gentle readers, does that seem fair? Or am I incorrect that just because someone calls a controlled double blind test SCIENTIFIC it is no such thing. In fact it’s the opposite of scientific. It’s a scam. That sure sounds like a scam. But there have been plenty of valid blind listening tests. Some of them have even been useful. Let’s not throw the baby out with the bathwater. |
geoffkait... the peer review process. What a scam that is ... It's not really inherently a scam. The process is imperfect, for sure, but that shouldn't wholly disqualify it.
It is interesting how it's apparently impossible to have a meaningful conversation about blind testing here.
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roberttcanYes, unlike all your claims, it was published. Where and when was it published? Remember your mantra: "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." |
roberttcan I have to imagine in any blind listening test where the organizers went
through all the trouble of training the participants, that the results
were of course published. Please share the link with us here.
Why would you imagine that? And why do you "have" to imagine it - can you not control your thoughts?
Untrained listeners are able to
discern small differences in audio performance in quick AB blind testing
better than trained listeners are in uncontrolled situations
Was that a published study?
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roberttcanUntrained listeners are able to discern small differences in audio performance in quick AB blind testing better than trained listeners are in uncontrolled situations. That is a very interesting claim. That’s especially so because in most of the the blind listening tests where I’ve participated, organizers included some training for the subjects to help them with the experiment. Do you have any evidence to support your claim? I ask because, as you like to state: "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." |
jafreemanWill someone here start and moderate a FB page, where rules of decorum are enforced? Audiophile Facebook pages already exist.
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nonoiseAnyone
here notice that every so often, someone pops in and spouts off about
how well pedigreed and engineered his background is and he then goes off
on tangents to demonstrate just how smart he is? Yup. They usually don't last long. We've seen this before, especially the "put some money into the bet. I am more than willing to do that" kind of taunt.
Beware the audio guru. They're easy to spot.
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roberttcan61 posts10-22-2019 12:08pmNo
it does not drive us crazy because it is pure supposition not at all
supported by fact. It is also a claim that you are not willing to put
your money behind. You don't know what you're talking about. You don't know me, and you apparently don't know anything about my involvement with scientifically controlled, double-blind listening tests.
You are right, I don't believe your claims ... What claims are those?
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rodman99999... Hours spent in a car familiarize it’s
owner with the overall sound of it’s operation. Slight
perturbations/changes in those sounds, will usually go unnoticed by an
infrequent passenger, but will(generally) be obvious to the owner.
My system’s presentation has aspects, with which I’m intimately
familiar, when reference material(call that a, "control") is played.
When something(fuse, cable, outlet, vibration control, whatever) is
replaced, and that changes an aspect of my system’s presentation; it’s
going to be much more noticeable to my ears, than anyone else’s
... That is a very good point and absolutely true. It drives some of the measurementalists here crazy to acknowledge that simple fact, as evidenced two posts above.
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geoffkait It was only a matter of time before controlled double-blind testing reared it’s ugly head. By now you would have thought everybody and his brother knows the results of a double blind test don’t mean anything, anymore than any other kind of test. It’s unfortunate that it’s virtually impossible to reasonably discuss controlled double-blind testing here. Its advocates seem to suffer from nearly religious fervor, which is an obstacle to conversation. Such tests have very limited value to the typical audiophile. Those who profess the greatest interest in these tests often seem to have a very limited understanding of not only proper test protocols, but how to interpret the results of such tests. So the discussions lead nowhere. What I’ve observed over the years is this: Those who most noisily proclaim the necessity and value of controlled double-blind testing very rarely conduct such tests themselves. Why is that? I suspect many references to such tests are just red herrings. |
roberttcanI have it in writing folks, you DO need to do quick switching in order for a listening test to have any validity. This is completely mistaken and not at all what I wrote:
... you need quick switching for 𝐭𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐭𝐲𝐩𝐞 of test to have any validity If you want to play "gotcha" regarding blind testing here, you'll have to find another foil.
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roberttcanGiven how drastic the sound improvement claims are, how come this is never reproduced in controlled listening tests. Again, please feel free to conduct your own tests, and then share the results with us. Conducting a proper, scientifically valid double-blind test of an audio fuse would be a tricky undertaking, because you need quick switching for that type of test to have any validity at all. You’d probably need to have two identical components - with the fuse being the only difference - and then switch between the two components. I’m not sure what the point of the exercise would be, though. Your beliefs are already established. Beware the audio guru. |
roberttcan
...YOU will not be able to show even
one documented, controlled listening test that indicates any positive
benefit of a high priced fuse in an AC line. Why? ... If they are so dramatic, it should be easy peasy. So why
don't they exist? Please feel free to conduct your own tests, and then share the results with us.
Beware the audio guru.
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