Some of the better lyricists and musicians in rap and hiphop?

Well put, @ggoggin. I really should make an effort to see her live.

I was telling my students that country and rap have in common the ability to deliver a great metaphor or play on language that makes you look at things differently.

Good approach. I never gravitated to either genre, but learned plenty through just modest exposure.

Just like the genre, apparently, the topic appears to be irrepressible!

@simao

I’m far from an expert, but would say that Mos Def, Kendrick Lamar and Biggie Smalls are/were first-rate lyricists.

@simao

Thank you! Very talented, my kind of grooves, and female empowerment.

Nice!

glupson,

I really, genuinely wish that you would be more honest. It’s as if you are confusing me with someone else. None of your accusations can be supported with evidence, which is why you have failed to present any. All you do is accuse, and without foundation.

You say:

Not one of those examples had lyrics even remotely linked to anything you promote here.

Promote? I’m not promoting anything. Show us a quote of mine that might be interpreted as "promoting".

I have been a defender of the genre from the beginning of the first (now deleted) thread, yet you suggest the opposite.

I have, a number of times, pointed out that there is great variety. In fact, it was one of my first counterpoints to millercarbon’s blanket dismissal, before you were even in the discussion.

While some influences can be traced further back, it was inner city American hip-hop that catalyzed the genre worldwide. It’s a simple fact, and in no way disparages those around the world who were touched by it, and subsequently added their own, unique branches to the tree.

Would it doom thris thread if I mentioned Gil Scott-Heron? LOL. Certainly Robert Glasper could be considered an amazing musician who dabbles in the genre.

Quincy Jones, and countless other musicians who the Rap-haters would likely consider to be "legitimate", have also incorporated Rap into their music.

glupson

Based on your posts on this thread, it should be apparent to readers that you don’t even understand the word "racism". If you did, then you would also understand that there isn’t anything remotely racist in discussing the socio-economic and political catalysts for certain strains of rap music.

As for "racism-infused ignorance", if you're going to make such pungent accusations, you really should support them with examples. 

One of the problems, of course, with staying narrowly on topic, is that as @simao , @orpheus10 , @ghasley and others have helped to illustrate, it is not possible to fully understand the hard-core of the genre without context. And in the current ultra-PC environment, discussing black history, long-standing systemic racism, and life in inner city ghettos, is almost automatically considered to be "political".

So when those of us who have some familiarity with the context, and the value that it provides in helping to illuminate both the tone and lyrics of hard-core rap, come across ignorant comments, by which I mean those born of ignorance of the very context of which I speak, it is natural to want to attempt to explain.

No one is arguing that there is anything wrong with disliking rap, nor arguing the facts related to the topic. But exclaiming that "it isn’t music", or suggesting that it all sounds the same, or is all profane and misogynistic, is patent nonsense, and reveals far more about the person making such comments than the music itself.

In the early ’70s, I travelled with my father to Paris, and we went to the newly opened Centre Pompidou, which housed a modern art exhibition. One of, if not the principal artist whose work was being featured was Cy Twombly. I was outraged by it, not for political reasons, but because, as I later told my mother, who was an artist and teacher herself, it looked as if a child had scrunched up some graph paper, glued it to a canvas, then gripped a pencil in his/her fist, and scribbled indiscriminately. I could not understand how it might be considered "art", nor what might prevent anyone from "creating" something very similar.

She patiently tried to explain that, among other things, it is actually quite difficult for adult artists to "let go", and express themselves in a pure, child-like manner.

Well, I never warmed up to Twombly, but my mother’s ability to build some context did help me to appreciate the work of other artists more deeply, and especially that of Paul Klee, who remains among my favorites.

And back to our regularly scheduled program...

@orpheus10 Thanks for mentioning Meshell! I’ve always liked her work. Well recorded, too.

And once again, @glupson pollutes a thread with breathtaking dishonesty.

Hard-core American rap is precisely what those who dismiss it out of hand on this forum react so strongly to. And of course I, and others, who have countered the thinly veiled racist comments, are not only well aware of the broader foundations of rap, but have largely the been the ones to talk about them on related threads.

To characterize it as a "relatively small, geographical location", is also dishonest, given the tremendous production and influence that has emanated from the inner cities. You might as well note that Silicon Valley is a" relatively small, geographical location", in an effort to denigrate the accomplishments of those who have worked there.

Finally, this:

Eventually, proclaiming that everyone who disagrees is a horrible person (in different words, though).

is a ludicrous straw man. You really should be embarrassed.