OHM Walsh speakers matched to room size with some tubes in the source and/or line stage and a good high current SS amp.
This combo will blow you away! |
Yes, that is true, you don't want a tube power amp with the OHMs especially for that kind of music.
Tubes in the line stage or source can work extremely well though I have found. Prog is one of my core genres I listen to alot. I listen to prog/metal less, but the combo works well there as well. "Deadwing" by Porcupine Tree is killer on my system.
You'll want speaks that are designed to work well specifically with tube power amps.
I'd stay clear of planars and electrostats for that genre as well. Go for a more dynamic design that can move some air but also handle the intricate delicate parts as well as a planar or electrostat.
I don't know the speaks Tvad recommended, but I know he is a prog head with good audio sensibilities so they will probably work well. They look like they are built to move a lot of air, so I suspect they may well work very nicely! |
I checked out "Waves" on You Tube.
Reminds me a bit of Steve Hackett live at times on several of his excellent DVD releases.
THat's good! |
For excellent sounding progressive rock internet radio with varied and deep playlists, put aside $800 or so for a SOundbridge or Squeezebox with external DAC on your system and tune in auralmoon.com, deliciousagony.com, or stellarattraction.com.
You can check them out on any computer as well...just will not sound as good! |
Another I've never heard but would interest me in general with a tube amp for any kind of music including prog/metal would be the Shindo Latour.
http://www.toneimports.com/shindo/latour.html |
A high current SS amp will leave more speaker options open for you.
I'd start with dynamic speakers that can move a lot of air yet still reveal delicate or intricate detail that will fit and blend into your room well and go from there.
I'd recommend staying away from tubes in the power amp at least initially mainly because a good high current amp, say Wyred4Sound Class D, for example, would drive almost anything and cost less and most likely be more worry free in regards to maintenance, biasing, tube replacement etc.
I'd start with a simple single tubed DAC and feed that from the front end of choice. That could be using any decent CD player with digital output, which you may already have even. using the digital output bypasses the internal DAC. The mhdt Paradisea or havana are good ones. There are others as well.
Or, it could be a Windows Vista or Apple computer or notebook running a music server program, like Windows Media Player (see my system for an example) that feeds the DAC.
Then, toss in your good quality pre-amp of choice, tube or SS depending on your lust and/or tolerance for tubes.
For tubes on a budget, the Juicy Music Peach is an inexpensive highly regarded tube pre-amp that I would consider the VTL 1.5 is another.
For SS, Classe or Musical Fidelity would be tghe first choices I would consider.
Musical Fidelity makes some very fine SS amps that would work well also (that is what I use in my system).
Another cost effective option could be a tube/SS hybrid integrated rather than separate power and pre-amp. Unison Unico is a good example of this.
OR the budget basemet option for good sound might be a Peachtree Decco or more powerful Nova hybrid integrated+ DAC, which can be had refurbished these days for as little as $500. One of these would drive most speakers that will be in your price range pretty well I would think in a typical sized listening room.
BTW any of these combos (dynamic speakers with detail + a strategically placed tube or two) should sound pretty good with most any genre of music, including prog/metal.
if you do go with a lower powered amp, then make sure the speakers are more efficient, say 89-90 db or greater. |
Heywaj10,
How big is your room? Any special constraints or considerations in where you would locate the speakers and where you will be listening from?
Also, what equipment are you starting with and what is a realistic total budget to invest at this time?
Which Paradigms specifically do you have in mind?
Off the cuff, I don't see a problem with building around Paradigm signature in general if that is the sound you like.
Whatever you get, wither pick them up used without overpaying or from a vendor with the in-home trial and satisfaction guarantee. Then you can resell or change as needed without taking a financial hit. |
Thanks Hey.
I think your getting a lot of good info to work with here so far and will be very well informed when the time comes around.
I've found you are usually better off in terms of value you get for the $$$ with audio the longer you can wait. The latest designs currently will likely start to become available second hand down the road at considerable reduced cost. And more people will start to turn over older more popular designs which drives the cost down on those as well as people tend to move towards the latest and greatest.
Good luck! |
..and the best way to find the right speaker is to look for feedback and opinions on the internet.
If you find 5-6 seemingly knowledgeable people agree on a particular characteristic of a particular speaker that appeals to you, then there is a very good chance it is a true fact. Then look deeper to see what kinds of systems those people run the speaks on for more info on how to get the most out of them.
Once you find the patterns of useful info based on what people say, then check for professional reviews on-line or in magazines to see what the professional reviewers say as an additional check, but I'd take pro reviews with a grain of salt as well. Its more important that there is a consensus among many than whether any one individual cares for a product or not. |
Likecoiledsteel,
Ironically, I found both B&W P6 and large Magnepan mg1.3c lacking.
Part of this was due to source and amplifier sound quality issues at the time as well.
Today, I've fixed the source and amp issues and run 2 different pair of OHM full range floor standers and a pair of Dynaudio monitors mostly.
Both OHMs and Dynaudios do well now but the little but overachieving Dyn monitors really could use a sub to keep pace with the OHMs on prog and metal.
I wouldn't mind trying either the B&Ws nor Maggies again now with better electronics, but I don't think the low end extension and dynamics on the older Maggies would cut it. The B&Ws had some good kick to them. They might.... |
LikeCoiled,
GAllos, OHMs, and B&W are three very different designs that do imaging and soundstage in fundamentally different ways.
What they have in common is B&Ws, Dynaudios and OHMs all generally present difficult loads for amps to drive properly, meaning the impedance varies at various frequencies, which affects the natural balance of sound top to bottom in a negative way. Gallos are similar I suspect but I am not as certain
The solution for balanced sound with more "meat on the bones" in the low end with these kinds of speaks is to use a high power SS power amp (watts) that also delivers a lot of current (amps).
These are more efficient and ideally double the rated output power rating into 4 and 2 ohms and deliver a more naturally balanced sound.
Combine dynamic speakers that move a lot of air with a more efficient amp like this and that is the formula for getting the most sound out of this kind of speaker.
It'll make a big difference for prog or any other music form with which power and dynamics are key to max enjoyment.
Or, as Tvad suggests, a more efficient design, 90+ db sensitivity or greater, will require a less powerful amp .
Along with greater sensitivity though, you might find that different amps and electronics still result in big differences in how the speaks actually sound as well, though less power is required.
Emerald Physics is another radically different speaker design I would like to hear. It uses specialized digital processing electronics to tune the source system to the speaks which is a very interesting and radical approach. I've heard some good things about these! |
I had less expensive B&W P6s. Even these had very good "punch" with a high power amp at loud volumes but were lacking at lower volumes. This was due ti the difficult load/high current issue mainly I believe. The amp delivered 360w/channel but not a lot of current. At low volumes, the bottom end suffered. At high volume, they rocked.
Even with metal, you do not want to always have to crank things to sound good. Match amp and speaks well and thnigs should sound good at lower levels also, although metal will still always sound best CRANKED!!! |
