"Rolling stones are the most misunderstood band in history."
Say what?
Say what?
Some irrefutable truths about rock and roll
1) Robert Johnson invented rock and roll, and is the rightful King of it. Elvis Presley's title should be amended to "Poster Boy of Early Rock and Roll."
2) Jeff Buckley's version of Leonard Cohen's "Hallelujah" is infinitely better than the Rufus Wainwright version and is the definitive version of the song.
3) The Rolling Stones were and are the most overrated band in the history of rock and roll.
4) If it's too loud you are, indeed, too old.
5) The Stone Roses' self-titled debut is the best debut album ever in the history of ever.
6) John Mayer needs to stop that right now.
7) A good song is a good song, whether it's played on an Audiovox tape deck and a single factory speaker in a 1976 Buick Skylark or a complete Linn Klimax system.
8) A couple of Les Pauls, a Fender Precision bass, and a decent set of drums sound every bit as good as the most disciplined orchestra.
9) There is absolutely nothing wrong with having the occasional urge to crank "Hungry Like the Wolf" from time to time, so long as it doesn't become a habit.
Did I forget anything?
*yes, I realize everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion, and this is meant to be tongue-in-cheek.
2) Jeff Buckley's version of Leonard Cohen's "Hallelujah" is infinitely better than the Rufus Wainwright version and is the definitive version of the song.
3) The Rolling Stones were and are the most overrated band in the history of rock and roll.
4) If it's too loud you are, indeed, too old.
5) The Stone Roses' self-titled debut is the best debut album ever in the history of ever.
6) John Mayer needs to stop that right now.
7) A good song is a good song, whether it's played on an Audiovox tape deck and a single factory speaker in a 1976 Buick Skylark or a complete Linn Klimax system.
8) A couple of Les Pauls, a Fender Precision bass, and a decent set of drums sound every bit as good as the most disciplined orchestra.
9) There is absolutely nothing wrong with having the occasional urge to crank "Hungry Like the Wolf" from time to time, so long as it doesn't become a habit.
Did I forget anything?
*yes, I realize everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion, and this is meant to be tongue-in-cheek.
Showing 33 responses by mapman
I'm with Audiofeil. As much as I've tried to convince myself otherwise over the years, no other rock and roll act is/was in the same league as the Beatles. It's sad but true. Maybe rock and roll has finally truly died. Maybe still it will be resurrected someday soon. Or maybe I'm just an old geezer now and rock and roll as it was is less relevant nowadays and something new, different and more relevant is on the horizon? |
"The Beatles have become the yardstick that others are measured by. IMHO, " No doubt. Over the years, as I listen to all kinds of new, old and different music, and then re-visit those Beatles songs that still resonate all these years after the fact, I realize just how true this statement is. In Western Societies at least, Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Ellington, Beatles.....these are the cream of the crop as determined by quantity and quality of output plus popular longevity compared to their peers. |
Marty, True, but don't think it is ever said what it is exactly that is being proposed to be done in the middle of the road. You can fill in the blanks based on inference. That's evidence of a great songwriting. Even in the case of an apparent throwaway like WDWDIITR, it still can mean many different things to different folks. Granted for most, we can infer exactly what is most likely meant. Just another aspect of what made teh Beatles great. "Come Together" is another Beatles tune I would not sing to children. But there are literally dozens and dozens of Beatles tunes that you can. |
"How can the Beatles be so good (I'm not a big Beatles fan, but think they are/were good) and Paul McCartney (as a solo act) be so bad?" I hear Paul still puts on a good live show! Even in their prime, no solo Beatle could be equated with the Beatles as a group. That was a unique synergy that could be emulated but never equaled consistently. However good or bad McCartney is/was as a solo act really has no relevance to what the Beatles were. There are a few McCartney albums that are worth mention that can claim some level of artistry approaching that of the Beatles albums. "Ram", "Band On the Run", "London Town" and "Tug Of War" are the ones I would cite personally though opinions will vary widely regarding the merit of much of McCartney's solo stuff. Can't comment on most of his recent albums though...haven't heard much of them. |
There is lots of good music always out there. Irrefutable truths require factual data to back them up though, otherwise they are just opinions, to which all are entitled. There can only be one "best" of anything. Best song? I won't even attempt to go there. In the "best rock and roll song that most people never heard of" category, I like "Some People" by Savoy Brown off the classic album "Jack The Toad". |
I like Abba. Better than many popular rock acts. Good songwriters, good singers, mass appeal out the gazoo. Its all music, even the mindless stuff. I do find the music and entertainment industries obsession with making money and producing mostly mindless garbage these days appalling though. Rock music was a catalyst for that no doubt. I might dislike the corporate warlords, but not the musician pawns that end up successful as a result in general, though I am indifferent to most these days. Music can just be fun though. I love a good pop song still despite all the dreck that runs the system as a whole. |
One side note: there is such a thing as noble rock music. I'll cite The Moody Blues example from above again as an example. A lot of Yes as well. Progressive rock is probably the category of rock that one is most likely to find noble works. Symphonic rock, the subarea of prog rock that demonstrates the greatest influence from classical music, perhaps the most along the lines of pure classical music. |
The album "Fear Of a Blamk Planet" is an interesting case study for the potential merits of rock music. This is a very dark though not vulgar theme album with the noble goal of bringing out some of the issues that face youths these days. The music is fabulous, the theme and lyrical content haunting. I view the artist's intent with this work as one of the most noble I can think of in recent rock music. |
I can't really argue with Shubert's irrefutable truths about rock and roll. At its core, it and its primary influences is as he describes, at the opposite end of the spectrum from what makes great classical music great. Two things I would point out though. 1) None of us are pure good or evil. Each of us has some amount of both in us. God and the devil, for lack of better words, in different amounts and proportions, that can change minute to minute. I like to think of it in terms of ying and yang. We are that way for a reason. Take either away completely and what is left is most likely lesser overall I suspect. Much of life is about recognizing the good and the bad and how to deal with it effectively. We learn a lot about both from music in general. 2) Rock and classical may be at their core at two ends of the spectrum in terms of high art and cultural value, but there is all forms of music in between of both those, variants of the purest forms in a sense. There is much to take away from it all! Not all music categorized as rock targets our vices. The example I will cite personally is The Moody Blues. They came about in the haze of the sixties but I would challenge anyone to find anything negative at all in their music. Their music is designed prety much exclusively to help elevate others in various ways. There is even a book out there these days that focuses on the spiritual aspects of the groups music. |
Here is just one sample of lyrics from a little known Moodies (known for their "classical" music influences) song that provides great example of what I am talking about: "Walking in the sand Thinking of things, adventures in my mind Tall ships that sail Across the ocean wide They won't wait for me See the way they glide away so gracefully And with tomorrow what will become of me They leave me so much to explain That's the start of our guessing game There are times when I think I've found the truth There are times when I know that I'm wrong And the days when I try to hide my fears Bless the days when I'm feeling strong Bless the days when I'm feeling strong Wonder why we try so hard Wonder why we try at all You wonder why the world is turning around When in the end it won't matter at all Standing in the town Looking at people, counting their frowns Unhappy faces, hurrying around So blind they cannot see All of these things The way life ought to be And with tomorrow what will they make of me It leaves me so much to explain That's the start of our guessing game There are times when I think I've found the truth There are times when I know that I'm wrong And the days when I try to hide my fears Bless the days when I'm feeling strong There are times when I think I've found the truth There are times when I know that I'm wrong And the days when I try to hide my fears Bless the days when I'm feeling strong There are times when I think I've found the truth" |
.. or this, which ain't a bad place for anyone looking to find themselves to start: "I've been thinking The way people do 'Bout the things that matter To me and you I've decided To do what I can And to find the kind of man I really am I can see the world from here And it sometimes makes me Want to disappear Back to nature That's where we belong And with just one truth I've found You can't go wrong Wherever you go Whatever you do Whatever you say Say, say, say Say it with love. I remember A long time ago When I heard those guitars That I worship so I was captured I wanted to stay And to hear that kind of music Everyday Heard the songs Around the world Saw the smiling faces On the boys and girls I was destined To play come what may And there's just one thing I knew I had to say Wherever you go Whatever you do Whatever you say Say, say, say Say it with love. Underneath A sea of doubt There's a million voices shouting Let me out, let me out When we go We never return 'Cos there's just one lesson That we got to learn Wherever you go Whatever you do Whatever you say Say, say, say Say it with love Say it with love Say it with love Say it with love Say it with love." |
Timeless Troubadours I've read this. Written by a respected and reputable author in his field apparently, not a music critic or media guy. Definitely a lot in there to dispute the notion that all rock music is bad. |
GEof/Judy/Tort, Schubert stands firm in his beliefs about right and wrong, which I admire. He is critiquing the music and how he perceives it as affecting people in a way that is negative or harmful to people. There is no doubt it has in many cases, though not all. So I agree with his stand based on principles. Maybe you've been listening to too much evil rock music? I find your posts callous and condescending and actually might even help substantiate Schubert's point. A little more spiritually uplidting music might do you some good. |
I don't see rock musicians as all that different in basic makeup from the great classical composers, or most people in general. Many had their "demons" and music helped to "exorcise" them. Different times, different places, different experiences is most of the difference, case to case. Some are able to overcome their demons and adversity better than others. All, in different ways. In the end, its a balancing act. I am grateful for the fairly stable upbringing and life I have had and that I have not had to experience the evils to the extent perhaps that some like Shubert have, like the evils of war and battle directly. That I am sure of. My musical tastes would be different I am certain under different circumstances. I understand completely how ones choice in music can help provide balance in life. I only wish more were in a better position to be able to absorb many of the negative or destructive things society throws our way without harm. It goes way beyond merely rock or music alone, that's for sure. |
I think Schubert hits a nerve with many with his assessment of rock music. Ironically, these days, rock is mostly dead and other forms of pop music and culture in general continue to push the limits of what is acceptable to publish or not. My view is the only way to know about what really goes on in the world is to remove barriers and let what was buried prior be seen. Where are the limits though? Anyone can say or publish most anything on the internet these days, like in this forum and these things remain on record for others to read, use or ignore as they please. There is a downside to everything I suppose. That seems to be the way things work. Rock music is no exception. Now, off to listen to some super raunchy Led Zeppelin..... |
The problem with telling anyone not to do something (or listen to something) that they might not seem as potentially harmful, is that the end result is most likely that they will, and perhaps not even realize the harm. Especially kids. My approach has been to call a spade a spade so that my kids know how to recognize it all for what it is. THen they are in a good position to act accordingly. THat is the approach that seems to work for me. So calling rock or pop music bad or evil at its core does not bother me in that there is some truth to it. Despite perhaps knowing that there is more to it than just that, listening to it will do nothing for some, like Schubert, whose interests and likes reside elsewhere. Personally, "I know its only rock and roll....but I like it!" |