I found out the speakers are actually tilted downward as the spike in the front are shorter. Now, it correct the problem to some extend. I am doing some A/B test with my B&W. I think the sound stage is about the same. The height is also about the same with B&W sounds a little bit higher. The B&W is more lay back, or relax, or darker. The Zu is more dynamic and brighter. But the Zu definitely has less bass than the B&W.
I don't hear the coherent magic people rave about. How should a coherent speaker sound like? Base on my understanding, in theory, if all frequency comes from the same spot or same cone, then it is coherent. If for the 3 way driver, since the tweeter, mid range and woofer has different distance, so, some calculation is required to make the sound coherent.
But for the Zu definition, there are still 2 cone separate apart. Then from the coherent perspective, how is it more coherent than traditional 3 way speaker like my B&W? Can a good 3 way speaker still sound coherent? |
Well, my system is not good now. I am having too much gain in my amp, and that affect the sound a bit. So, I am looking to change the amp to a SET amp.
Maybe another reason is my room is too small. It is about 17 in. from the back wall and 3 feet from the side. The Zu is alot bigger than what I expect. It somehow seems out of placed when place in my living room. This may be one of the reason. |
And I did some more A/B testing. I think the Zu is more musical, and has more detail. It is brighter, but not bright or harsh of any sort. It is still neutral. I think it depends on the type of music. For instruments like acoustic guitar, saxophone, piano, the Zu sound better. For vocal, I think it is a tide and depends on individual. I like the Zu a bit more as there is more detail. But the B&W is darker and more relax. For cello and violin, I like B&W better as it deeps down to the lower frequency range more. Cello sounds more solid and sweet.
I start to like the Zu, it's just I hope to get a bigger sound stage out of it. But as mentioned, I need to experiment with a different amp. I can't do much in terms of the room though. |
I bought it used. The previous owner said he has about 100 hrs on it. He said the suggested burn in period is 200 hrs. Let's see. But I am not a big believer in burn in. I can't imagine the sound change linearly with time. I think for the first 50 or so hours, maybe there will be some changes in sound, and eventually, it will settle down. Like the cone now becomes more flexible compared to new. but I am not sure if it really requires 200 hrs. Maybe ... but even there is, probably the improvement will be hard to notice.
And I am with you. I buy something, and I want it to work in day one, or shortly after. |
yes, I am researching on an amp, and I read someone said SS is better match to Omen Def, and particularly the Pass F3 and XA30.5. But I check, the XA30.5 has 26dB gain, which is not too much lower than my McCormack DNA-1 of 30dB gain. I am looking for something around 20dB gain. The F3 may be better as it has 12 dB gain.
What are the difference between the F3 with the SET on definitions. I listen to vocal, sax, cello, violin ... |
I am very interested in the Mini Torii too. I think it looks very good, better than a F3 clone. And I am using a SS now, so, I am tempted to try a tube SET even though the F3 sound very close to a tube SET. One thing is, the Mini Torii is much more expensive than a F3 clone ... and I can't find any review or comments with someone directly comparing the two.
BTW, is the mini Torii an integrated or a power amplifier? It has a volume knob, and it seems it has a preamp section, and it stated on the web site that a preamp is not needed. But what if I already have a preamp? Would it alter the sound in a negative way if the signal is preamp twice?
And it has 3.5 watt into 4 ohm, not sure how much watt will be there for Omen Def which is 6 ohm .. like 4.5 watt? |
Actually, the McCormack sounds ok, I think. I cannot say if it is good or bad as I have no comparison. The only problem is the gain. I cannot turn on the volume knob of my preamp pass 9 o'clock, and I feel the sound is not as good as I turn the volume to a higher range.
but I just want to understand. For the Omen Definition, it seems it is better to have more watts compared to Druid or Essence. If I am looking for SET, what power I should get? I am thinking something 20 or above, but I think it is rare and expensive. |
Hi, Morganc, your comment is specifically for omen def, right? Just want to make sure as I read some ppl comment that the omen def needs more watt than other model like Druid. Just want to make sure. |
Hi, I need some advise on picking the right amp. I have limited budget around $1000. I can stretch it maybe to $1200. I will buy used equipment. So far, based on other people's comment and my budget and reviews, I have the following 3 candidates:
1) a local AES SE-1 for $800. This has low hour Audio Note 300B tube. 7 watt per channel. I think this is a pretty old unit and $800 seems too much. I think it is retail ~ $1500 in 1995.
2) Decware Mini-Torii. 3-6 watt. I read good reviews about Decware amps. I found a used one for $1100.
3) F3 clone. I am not sure how much. Maybe $700?
Which one do you think will give me the biggest bang for the buck?
Thanks. |
Oh ... I just found out that the F3 has an input impedance of 10k Ohm, which is too low for my PrimaLuna Preamp with output impedance of 2800 ohm!!! I almost overlook this part. Gee ...
So, the F3 is not good for me then? Would other First Watt product good for me? I think I read someone post the preference for Zu is
F3 -> M2 -> XA 30.5
I don't know the difference between F3 and M2 by reading the web site. Does anyone has any experience with M2 and Zu Omen Definition? |
I hope I can audition them too, but it is not possible. I am in Vancouver, Canada. I don't think there is anyone in Vancouver carry Zu and PrimaLuna. So, I can only audition different amps but not the whole system. So, I mainly rely on my internet research and other people's comment. I know other people won't know exactly my electronics and room setting, but just trying to get most opinion as possible. And I don't have an acoustic / electrical engineering background. I am sure there are a lot of very knowledgeable people here, and has vast experience of different brands. So, all of your opinion are actually very important to me =)
I read the First Watt web site. It described the design concept of each model which I don't understand. Reading 6moons and other people's comment, the M2 seems to be the next choice which pass my sanity test. It has a low gain of 15 dB (checked), a higher input impedance of 100k (checked), it has warmer sound than F5 and J2 per 6moons (checked), it has a low output impedance which suppose to give tighter bass, right?
Do you think M2 would be a good fit for me? Does it give a tubey sound close to SET amps? Anyone?
Thanks. |
Gopher,
what is the output impedance of your Shindo? I know F3 is a very good amp and good match with Zu based on all the reviews and comments, and I am almost set on it until I realized the input impedance. The rule of thumb is that it should be 10x the preamp's output impedance.
So, if I use F3 (input impedance of 10k Ohm) with my PrimaLuna (output impedance of 2800 Ohm), how would it affect the sound? Of course, i can change the preamp too ... but I want to keep it if possible as I like its sound. |
ok, based on my research, if the input impedance of power amp is not high enough (10x of the output impedance of preamp), then the system will be more prone to sonic distortion. This is because there is a reduction of signal from preamp to power amp. And the reduction is a function of frequency. So, the reduction is not a constant that can be balanced out by turning up the volume knob. That means, the sonic is changed, whether it is good or bad will then be subjective, and depends on each unit, I guess. |
Holy smoke, it is SOLD!!!! |
Just an update on this thread and share with you guys. I am not convinced that my Preamp with such high output impedance (2800ohm for mid and treble, 11.5k ohm at 20Hz!!) will match with F3 with input impedance of 10k.
I decided to give the AES SE-1 a try. It is good, it has 7 wpc with the 300B tube and can drive the Zu no problem. The problem of having too much gain is also alleviate. I can now turn the preamp to about 10 - 11 position, with the volume control in iTunes at about 1/4 of the bar.
The sound is also improved for instruments like piano. It seems the treble frequency is improve. There is no significant improvement on vocal, which surprise me. Because 300B is well know to deliver very smooth vocal. Don't get me wrong, the vocal on my system is very good, I am quite satisfied, that means the McCormack can delivery vocal as good as a 300B SET amp, this is what surprise me. |
