Solid states more accurate than tubes?

By the way the  real accuracy of a S.S. design or tubes design is not in the subjective impression of clarity or details, it is in the perception of the real tonal timbre of instrument and voices.....
 

Is the piano sounding like a real piano?

Timbre naturalness is ALL there is, those who want details can buy a microscope...

 :)

To mahgister - 

You post that "the real accuracy of a S.S. design or tubes design is not in the subjective impression of clarity or details, it is in the perception of the real tonal timbre of instrument and voices..... 

"Is the piano sounding like a real piano?"

What you post may be true in theory, but here again you are touching on whether one's system, ... from source signal input, starting with phono cartridge, CDP or whatever, is changed as the signal works its way through the electronics, and then is converted back into sound through the speakers.

I touched on the speaker point in an earlier post.  Let's assume that the electronics and the speakers are doing a good job of converting the electronic signal back into sound energy.  What about room affects?

One more point about speakers.  There have been a number of threads which discussed at great length time coherence.  Some speaker manufacturers have designed their speakers to be purportedly time coherent.  For example, Vandersteen, Green Mountain, and possibly Thiels.  Indeed, the late, great Roy Johnson of Green Mountain wrote a number of fascinating articles about time coherence and how high order cross-overs screw up the time coordination of the various drivers in a dynamic speaker system. 

According to time coherence enthusiasts, speakers that are not time coherent can affect whether a "piano sound[s] like a real piano."

So we end where we began.  Absolutely accurate and pure system tonality is an aspirational sonic utopia that can be attempted but is rarely achieved.  So, I say, if it sounds good, enjoy the fantasy.

Just my humble opinion.

BIF         

bifwynne

Your post and remarks are interesting and rightful thinking....

I have embed my aown audio system, not perfectly for sure, but rightfulle, mechanically, electrically, and acoustically; then my judgement criteria for the difference between S.S. design or tubes design, will comes if i compares to the most essential audio impression, the tonal timbre of an instrument, his naturalness....

When your system begins to be rightfully embed in his 3 dimensions, where resonance and vibrations are controlled, when the electrical noise of the house is not to high, and the acoustic of the room rightly controlled, the more fundamental experience  you enjoy is rightful timbre and imaging....

That is my experience....

 Absolutely accurate and pure system tonality is an aspirational sonic utopia that can be attempted but is rarely achieved.

You are right in the absolute, no audio system is perfect, but when we go in the right direction this "utopia" begins to be a feeling that guide us in the right direction.... That is all my pretense and the sense of my remarks about timbre...

My best tou you fellow....  

What are some of the speakers that sound especially accurate and good with Atma-sphere OTL amps? Some examples would be helpful to illustrate you're point.

Quad ESLs, Sound Lab ESLs, Classic Audio Loudspeakers (I have T-3s at home), Audiokinesis, Harbeth (some models work better than others, check with us on that one), ProAc, Merlin,  Spendor,  JM Labs,  Most single-driver full range loudspeakers like Lowther, PHY and so on, Sonus Faber (as long as the speaker employs a single woofer), JBL, Altec and many other classic horn systems, Avant Garde, Vandersteen (usually the older ones- some of the newer ones are harder to drive), DeVore Fidelity, Voxativ, Spatial Audio, PureAudio Project, Salk... I can go on for quite a bit! Especially with our smaller OTLs, what you want to look for is that the woofer impedance curve is benign and nominally 8 ohms. So many 2-way speakers work quite well.


What we came to conclude is that flat frequency response is meaningless if the amplifier imparts audible coloration. A good example of that is harshness and brightness caused by low level high ordered harmonic distortion in solid state amps. Its hard to call that 'neutral' when everything you play through it is bright... The reason for this is the ear converts all forms of distortion into tonality (assigning 'bright' and 'harsh' to the higher ordered harmonics) and will favor that over actual frequency response, to such a degree that getting the speaker to be perfectly flat (which appears to be a Sisyphean task anyway) is pointless if the amp causes colorations due to distortion.

If you can keep the harmonic distortion to the lower orders the distortion will be less audible (as the ear is far less sensitive to the lower orders), and there are ways to do that without feedback (the latter of which is often rightly blamed for brightness and harshness in most amplifiers- the reason that is the case is a topic for another thread). If you promote linearity in the amplifier you can achieve fairly low distortion without feedback. Our amps at full power can be as low as 0.5% THD with about 0.05% or less IMD, which is better than a lot of tubes amps running feedback.  If you can get the IM and higher ordered harmonics down, that is how you get to 'neutral'.


That is what we've been doing for the last 45 years, but that has also meant that we have to vet the speaker to work with our amps. That's really not all that hard which is why we've been around for so long.