So how many people are using subwoofers


with full range floorstanders? I need just a little more bass weight out of my system and have vascilated between REL subwoofer or upgrading my amp from Conrad Johnson MF-2200 to an MF-2500. 60-70% of the music doesn't need a sub,but that other 30% keeps me off balance. Is the amp upgrade going to give me more bass weight (along with other benefits) or should I just go for the sub? I think I know the answer but would like to hear other opinions.
existing system=
CJ PFR pre
CJ MF-2200 amp
Theta Miles cdp
Silverline Sonata speakers
Homegrown silver lace ic's
MIT-2 bi-wire
artemus_5

Showing 1 response by johnnyb53

I agree with Wolfe that real sub-20Hz subs add venue ambience and imaging and space cues that aren’t there without them. A few years ago I had a modest subscription to the Seattle Symphony for a few seasons, and I remember noticing that the concert hall sort of "crackled" with energy even before the music started.

Ever since that experience I have been reaching the theory/conclusion that when shopping for new speakers you should start with the subwoofer(s). And if you’re looking for the "absolute sound" you’ll *never* achieve it without serious subs that can define the space.

Properly chosen subwoofers will determine how well you can energize your listening space (helping determine how much contribution you need from the L-R stereo pair), and just how much infrasonic atmosphere you want to add to the experience.

Here is an excerpt of Jacob Heilbrunn’s contribution to a review of a pair of JL Gotham subs ($24K/pair, now $30K for V2):

"Turn the two subs off and it sounds as though the mains shrank in size and volume – even on a Bach solo guitar piece. Weird? Definitely. But impossible to refute. There is apparently information in the subsonic region that fills out the sound of a concert hall. Once you’ve heard it, you can’t go back."


– Jacob Heilbrunn, TONEAudio

No one would think, as one’s basking in the sound of a pair of high-end minimonitors reproducing solo classical guitar, that he’d want (or need) a sub. But there it is.

Tip for integrating subs to mains: I have a pair of modest little 8" subs (Mirage MM8s, out of business, out of production). They don’t reproduce that sub-24Hz venue energy, but they flesh out the 35-50Hz region of my Maggie 1.7s. Fortunately they have a great set of controls--volume, continuous phase knob from 0-270 deg., and crossover point from 50Hz (wish it was 40) up to 150 and from there, open-ended.

For awhile I was noticing a persistent hump around 100 Hz which was annoying. Normally I’d think it was a box or port resonance, but these are maggies and I figured it might be a crossover (betwen subs & Maggies) issue that was exciting a room resonance.

I put on my mono copy of Sgt. Pepper’s and cued up "A Little Help From My Friends." My reasoning was that it would be easier to dial in dual subwoofers with a mono signal, and it would be easier to address the crossover point with Paul’s very melodic bassline in this number that dances back and forth across the 50Hz crossover point.

While playing the music, I turned one sub off while I adjusted the knobs on the other. It turned out the phase control was the issue. I have the subs sitting about 2’ behind the panels with the main sub diaphragm facing the wall to augment volume and extension. When I turned the phase dial from 0deg. to about 160 deg. out of phase, the hump disappeared. I turned it off and tried the same with the other sub, and voila! That sub popped into proper focus (and the hum disappeared) at the exact same setting, -160 deg.

Since that very quick episode I have enjoyed totally integrated subs’n’panels on every kind of music I throw at them.

You might say I got better sub integration with "A Little Help From My Friends" even though nobody came over to my house.