Hi, Everybody,
I'm baaaaaaaack! ;-)
Well, I'm finally getting to listen to some music!
First of all, I sold the PS Audio Elite Plus amp to a very nice person on Audiogon who really wanted to replace her father's old Elite Plus that had breathed its last. Lucky break for both of us! That gave me several hundred dollars to throw at a new amp, and I picked up (get this) a Unison Unico, 80 w/ch tube/ss hybrid for $800, again on Audiogon. My first tubed gear, ever.
So now I have the Music Hall CD 25.2, the Unico, and some old Monster Cable interconnects and way-too-long Monster Cable Powerline 2 speaker cable (all cables from the 1980s).
I know that the system, especially the speakers, aren't anywhere near broken in (Totem recommends at least 100 hours of break in time for the Arro) but I can give you all some initial impressions.
The mids so far are just lovely... recorded vocals sound more like human voices than I've ever heard in my home. James Taylor is "in da house." ;-) Bass extension on the Arros is pretty astonishing, given that puny 4.5" driver. As has oft been reported elsewhere, the thump of the bass isn't going to loosen your fillings, but the NOTES are "there," and well defined. Bass guitar sounds like a stringed instrument, and nothing feels missing. Pretty amazing.
Soundstage and imaging... well, that's kind of a disappointment, so far, which is weird given that that's what these speakers are known to do particularly well. Vocals hang in the air between the speakers like they should, but there's not much action beyond the boundaries of the speakers themselves. Is it the crappy cable, room placement, newness of the speakers, or some combination of the three? Anyway, that's a work in progress, as I continue to tweak things. I'd LOVE advice on how to get the most out of these speakers, and how to dial them in for best imaging.
Analogue: still waiting to hear from SOTA about what repairs/upgrades to my old Sapphire they recommend. |
Ethanh,
I'll try moving the speakers further out from the rear wall. The cabinet the components are in is about 19" deep, anway, so we're not talking about them being way out in the middle of the room at 2". I thought the Arro was supposed to be flexible regarding room placement, but I know that every room is different. |
Mapman,
Ah, my tutor returns! ;-)
Yes, I'll get 'em out from the wall and report back! |
Asa,
Yes, cabling is next. Powerline 2 was "pretty good stuff" back in the '80's. But the lengths I have now are way too long, so if I need to at least cut and reterminate them if I'm going to use them as a stopgap measure. Again, I don't want to blow my budget on wire until I see what the bill from SOTA for bringing my TT up to spec is going to be. |
Mapman,
Turns out they were about 18" from the back wall. Moved 'em another 6" out and the transparency, imaging and soundstage all took a big leap forward. Everything started to bloom as it should. They sound much better (whew!) and the bass doesn't feel particularly compromised yet.
One of my "reference" CD's is James Taylor's "That's Why I'm Here." On one tune ("Only A Dream In Rio") there's a bit of percussion, some kind of wood block, that comes at you from WAY off to the left if things are set up right, and that bit "clicked" when I moved things further into the room. So I'm on the right track, it seems.
I'll keep playing with placement to fine tune the results, but thanks a lot for the tip! :-D |
Mapman,
I'm going to try to "finesse" the WAF by surreptitiously moving the media cabinet out from the wall, too, to disguise the fact that the speakers are now further out. LOL!
Really, the Arro's sound awfully nice so far... I'm delighted at the prospect that they'll continue to improve as they're broken in. |
Knownothing,
Great to hear from you again, too! Wow, the stuff on the HCM site is really "cheap" (by the crazy standards of this hobby). ;-)
Anybody know anything about the Audioquest Coral CQ interconnects and GBC speaker cables? I really could take care of the whole system at this point for around $150! |
Mapman,
Hey, thanks for responding!
The current IC is just some old Monster Cable IC with gold plated RCA terminations. The CD player is a new Music Hall CD 25.2. (I finally heard from SOTA, by the way, and should have my refurbished and slightly upgraded Sapphire back in 10 days or so!)
I think I'll take your advice and try the new IC first with the old speaker cable, see what that sounds like, and then try various permutations of the different wires. What kind of surprised me about the new AQ speaker cables was not so much the brightness, but that the "air" seemed sucked out of things.
In any case, I'll give break in time and just go with what sounds best for now.
By the way, I now no longer doubt that different cables sound different... it's not even subtle if you listen at all carefully. |
Knownothing,
Wow... a wealth of resources there... thanks... I'll comb through those pages tonight. :-) |
I contacted Usedcable.com for a recommendation and they offered JPS Labs Ultra Conductor for $105 for a 6 ft pair, and XLO HT Pro HTP1 (RCA) $ 75 for interconnects. Thoughts? |
Well, I went with the Audioquest Coral interconnect for the CD player and the Audioquest GBC speaker cable, all from HCM. The price is right (under $180, shipping included, for both) and it's gotta beat the old Monster Cable I'm using now. :-) I'll report back when I can listen to the combo.
Got a quiet work week ahead next week, so I should have more time to listen and break in the Arro's. :-D |
Knownothing,
Thanks, and I will report back. I have to say that I'm impressed with HCM so far... I ordered this morning and already have a tracking number from them. :-) |
Audioangel,
Yes, I'd heard the Audience 42's at a local dealer. Since Dynaudio seems to be discontinuing the Audience line, they were discounted... under $1000, IIRC. I liked them... very good imaging, nice soundstage. But as I gravitated toward a floor-standing model, I dropped them from my list. I ultimately went with the Totem Arro. |
Guys,
Well, I got the Audioquest GBC speaker cables and Coral interconnects the other day, and finally got to plug just the speaker cables into the system and listen today.
While the new speaker cables sound more powerful and full in the bass notes, the top end sounds harsh and very bright compared to the old Monster Cable Powerline 2 cable I'd been using. To use my "reference CD" again, James Taylor's voice sounds edgy and bright, and the air and space around his voice is absent. Does this sound like a matter of break-in to you?
Additionally, it turns out that the spades are too small for the Arro speaker terminals. I can attach them firmly by inserting one side of a spade into the bare-wire-hold in each speaker post and screwing down tight, but I'm wondering if that's copromising sound quality and if I need to return them for that reason alone. (They're just fine on the Amp end.)
Thanks in advance for your insights! Help! |
Mapman, Knownothing,
Well, this is very interesting. I finally got to replace the old Monster Cable interconnects between the CD player and Amp with the new Audioquest Coral CQ cables, and there's quite a difference. Most of the harshness disappears, and a lot of the "dimensionality" and "air" has returned. So perhaps the AQ speaker cables + the Arro's were revealing shortcomings in the old interconnects? Anyway, I'll try to chill out and just give the whole system some time to burn in before jumping to any conclusions. Thanks! |
You know, I was joking with a friend yesterday that high-end audio was a great hobby for people who love music and gadgets and have obsessive personalities. :-)
I'm afraid I'm a poster boy for the "obsessive" part. I've got all this great new equipment to enjoy, but I still can't help but think that I should've given the Ohm Walsh Micro Tall's an audition before settling on the Totem Arro's... Mapman's advocacy for the Ohm's was so eloquent! Sigh!
Time to just play lots of music and get over it! |
Upon reflection, I think that some of what I'm experiencing has to do with the extent that the Internet (both retail and sites like Audiogon) has changed how you shop for high-end audio.
When I bought my first good system (PS Audio Amp, Vandersteen 2c's, Systemdek turntable) back in the mid-1980's, I spent about 4 months going from shop to shop (I lived in the NYC area back then)... I'll never forget the single-speaker Linn dealer who tried to literally confiscate my wristwatch while I listened to equipment!...) I ended up buying my stuff from two dealers: Innovative Audio in Brooklyn, and a guy in Lynnbrook, Long Island whose name I can no longer remember.
Anyway, there was no internet, and no question that I was going to buy my gear from one of the brick and mortar stores I'd visitedÂ… gear that I'd actually HEARD first. That's how I ended up with the Vandy's: it was love at first listen.
But now I live in Austin which has a nice group of high-end shops, but still limits what you can get to hear.
Plus, between the range of stuff you can learn about (and covet) on the 'Net, the advice you can get on a site like Audiogon, and the possibility of picking up used gear here, everything changes. I started out this upgrade process swearing that I'd only buy something that I'd heard first. And I ended up with a bunch of components that I'd never heard first.
Times do change. |
Folks,
Snuck the Arro's out from the rear wall another 6" when nobody was looking. ;-) Yowie!! The soundstage firmed up by another degree and the bass response deepened radically. I don't even think I've scratched the surface of what the Arro's can do. Joy! :-D |
I haven't yet tried mass loading. Been too busy messing with placement. |
I'd like to get some help here from somebody with better ears than mine. The dealer who sold me the Arro's offered to come by and help me with installation, and I may very well take him up on that. Besides, this was the first pair of Arro's he'd ever sold, so he was eager to hear them. :-)
The bass response from these tiny things is astonishing... but since I'd expected bass response to diminish as they came farther out from the rear wall, I'm not sure if what I'm hearing currently is "real bass" or some sort of room-interaction bloat. Hmmmm.... |
Knownothing,
Thanks a lot for the links. I'll use them as a starting point. I know I'm still not at the "That What I'm Talkin' About" position! ;-) |
Mapman,
Hi! I like the Unison very much. Built like an absolute tank and sounds very fine to my ears... more than enough power to drive the Arro.
I consulted with a Unison dealer (don't want to put him on the record without his permission) who told me that the Unico's phono stage is "okay" at best, maybe on the level of the Pro-Ject Phono Box. Anyway, Unison's distributor quoted me a price of $250 for the Unico phono card, delivery from Italy included, and this dealer thought I could get a much better outboard phono stage for that kind of money.
Ultimately, I decided to try my hand at assembling a Bottlehead "Seduction" tubed phono stage. The kit goes for $275, and the reviews are wonderful. I haven't touched a soldering iron in years, so this is bound to be an adventure. :-) |
Mapman,
All I really know is what people have recommended here on eBay. The Lehmann Black Cube, Musical Surroundings Phonomena, and Jolida JD-9 all seem to be well regarded.
The standard Bottlehead Seduction only has around 36 db of gain,and so is limited to MM or MC carts with at least 2.5 mv of output, although I believe that 5 mv is the target output. There are a lot of well regarded MM carts out there, so I'm not so worried about being limited to MM. What attracted me to the Bottlehead, besides how much people seem to love them, is that the kit apparently comes with really first rate components out of the box, and that it is an easy amp to upgrade and "mod" later. |
