I'm looking to create a short list of speakers for music only. The room is 15x28 with 9' ceilings and hard surfaces, except a few padded chairs and light fabric window covers. The main listening area is 15x18 and the rest of the room is my kitchen which opens up to it.
Musically, I listen to rock, jazz, and a variety classical but no hip hop or electronic to speak of. The ideal speaker will provide smooth tonal response, good dynamics and importantly freedom from stridency which the live room will only accentuate. High SPL's and subterranean bass are not required but I don't want something that gets lost in the space. The speakers must be compact - 35" or so tall and not more than 8-12" wide and deep. I prefer floor standing designs because of the room volume and as protection against a 6 year old. My budget is around $1k used, maybe a bit higher for the right choice.
A few of my early thoughts are the smaller Spendors and Quad L series as well as Totems and Dynaudio.
The source will be a Squeezebox playing lossless digital and the amp is TBA, but will be matched to the speakers which I think should be picked first.
Any and all comments are welcome. Thanks in advance.
My Kestrel HRs are in storage in the closet. They are my sentimental favorites, I'd give them to one of my kids before I sold them. Altough the last time I did that my Paradigm 9seMIIIs were blown up by my son.
Wdrazek: No need to go to any special trouble; I was just curious about the exact model number. At some convenient moment though, you might want to know just what you have. :)
I don't want to overdo my suggestion to sell these, but to be honest I was struck by the fact that your budget of 1k is a limiting factor and selling SP1/2's will increase your budget's "breathing room" immensely, probably get you pretty close to your top choices. Sitting in storage, they will at best lose value gradually. If you don't like their looks, think if you'd actually use them ever again.
It is not an SP1/2e, I'll check what it is when I pull it from storage. I like the speaker but its large rectangular box form factor just doesn't work in the living room.
Wdrazek: Thanks. I am not actively looking for anything right now. I have Spendor BC1 that I enjoy hugely, and while I have found better speakers, it was always a lot of money for a little improvement. So I'll wait until I can affod a "quantum jump". (I suggested selling SP1/2's because then you could afford to buy exactly what you want; what good even a good speaker is doing you warehoused? BTW was there really a model called SP1/2a or did you mean SP1/2e? I haven't followed them all.)
Oh, and I'm a little sentimental about the Spendor SP1/2a's that I own. Also, they're in offsite storage so pulling them out, photographing and listing them doesn't appeal to me right now.
I've only been to a few on this round of shopping - Glenn Poor's, Saturday Audio Exchange and two local Tweeter's. Of all the local shops Audio Consultants in Evanston is my favorite. Pro Musica generally has very well matched systems and depending on who you get can be great or not so great.
So far, my preference from these visits is: Martin Logan Clarity (but they're $2800 new), the Polk LSi15, then Spendor S3e. The Spendor S5e was out of stock and the setup on the Spendor S3e was substandard so another trip to Saturday Audio is required. I will check out Totems at Van L Speakerworks (John is a great guy) and head to Pro Musica for the Proacs. Then I think I'll be ready to decide.
i see the nib hr's are still for sale, see what he'll take for them. it is definitely a buyers market for a discontinued nib speaker from a defunct manufacturer! esp given the fact that seller is a dealer(?) and is now competing only with used products and more motivated individuals! take it from a real estate agent, dealers just want to move old inventory as it is not the main business to sell old product for full retail in a competitive market. just my take on it tho ;)
That is a screaming deal! I know the urge to buy something you can't use - there's a Rotel RMB1095 and pair of Spendor SP1/2's sitting in my storage as we speak.
Right now a scuffed pair of Kestrels is available for $500 (reduced from $600). I think with a little patience a nice pair should be available at a great price. One thing that impresses me is how satisfied Kestrel owners appear to be both here and on Audioreview.
A guy recently sold a pair of K2s here in the cherry finish for $600. I made an offer (too late of course) even though I had no place to put them. That may have been one of the years best buys.
yes they do. they only cover drivers on top 1/3 of speaker. they are nothing more than black grillcloth with monofilament line hemmed in around edge. they are a pain to remove and re-insert as the line strech itself is what causes them to fall into the cabinet groove that surrounds the two drivers, but they look just fine as far as that goes. in other words there is no structural rigidity and of course zero protection to drivers, not unusual in hi end gear tho. playboy mag picked them as part of a $20K dream stereo 2 yrs back so they may have a photo on line.
congrats! btw, if you can't find the hr's any longer... the K2's are still around. never heard HR personally but i believe the tweeter was upgraded on K2's. you may be able to locate a slightly used pair in your stain with a little web shopping. from 'invisible speakers' to big 'stats! just like a woman eh?;).
Yesterday was a success. The in-walls are off the plate and the on-walls she didn't go for. Trouble is, what she liked best were a $5k pair of Martin Logan's which are not an option. The good news is a floor stander and mini are about equally desirable to her.
I wish the Kestrel's were still being sold. I only heard them once locally and really liked them but that was 5 years ago. The same shop carries Proac so I'll check those out, the Spendor's once more and choose between them, the Kestrel HR's and the long shot B&W CM4's.
And yes, Old Style is in style here - especially at the ball games and nobody beats a Chicago dog. They're the best.
as expatriot of chicagoland i feel your pain! glad you like your sunfire...if you are going to use it for this music system good for you! if not maybe checkout other brands, used, beforehand. those HR's are 36". maybe she could help out with design elements on end table itself. WAF is give n take. u gives, she takes;) u r right about monitors going to a solid 45 hz or so. imho one can achieve a higher sound quality with $1K used floorstanders than a $1K sub/monitor combo. many will disagree... but to match a quality sub to less expensive monitors will be a real project that may not satisfy in long run. still have old style beer up there? and a good vienna sausage!
I'm taking the wife to look at a few speakers today - small floorstanders and stand mounts. Yesterday she started talking in-walls so the urgency level has been raised... She objects to beefy stands so maybe a floor stander will win after all. That would eliminate the need for a sub.
Speaking of which, I've had a Sunfire True for 8 years and love it. You're right it should be crossed over low. The only really bad match was with a pair of NHT super zero's. The hole in the upper bass was huge. Anyway, I've ruled out getting something I'm not thrilled with just to be WAF compliant. Whatever it is, I have to love it.
Have you considered Vienna Acoustics, Bachs. Very musical speakers and I believe less than 36 inches tall. Or has any one suggested the Monitor Audio RS-6 that recieved rave reviews in Stereophile. This speaker is only 33 inches tall. I haven't heard them but they seem worth a look.
As i suspected! sub, sat is what you are left with eh? imo you can do a lot better than a sunfire for starters. musically that is. many great sub deals out there. don't go too small on monitors tho. imo, a sub should ideally only handle LOW bass, below 40 hz. to really keep music believable. you are down to brass tacks now. it will be an interesting search to find sub sat trio for $1K that is 'audiophile' quality. a shoddy sub will ruin a good system so do not skimp there if you really want great sound. (lessons learned). love to know what you end up with! is she southern or northern italian? :)
Yes, she is Italian and a beauty ;-) My den is exactly what I wanted - THX 2 ultra, plasma, black leather, breuer tables, etc. Ultra modern. And the kitchen has all the Wustoff and Calphalon I want but when it comes to the public areas it's a different story. She rules that with the fervor of a true zealot.
The main issue is that the speakers are supposed to be invisible. Since the sideboard the speakers will flank is only 35" tall and all the wood in the room is stained dark my choices are limited. I might end up with S3/5's, small Dyn's or Tablette's and a Sunfire sub. But I'm afraid they will get lost in a 15 x 28 room. Not that it will play Mahler's 5th at staggering levels. Mostly it's for background and entertaining.
time to go clint eastwood man! if this gal does not approve of K2's looks i question this whole relationship! even the nib originals in mahogoney are furniture grade finished. get a bose wave cd radio and hide the kestrals behind the bigscreen when not in use. she must be a helluva wife ;). italian by chance? mine WAS. seriously tho, don't buy sound gear to satisy well intentioned but occasional listeners, you will live to regret THAT purchase long after you have upgraded your wife. speakers make or break systems. get her a gift cert. to Vic's secret and satisfy her in another room. audiophiles are behind you.... let us know what you do.
My wife's thoughts exactly. "Why can't we get the little Bose speakers in our living room?" I moved my system into a vacant bedroom after hearing that question.
Haven't given up on floor standers and I agree that small boxes on stands are more likely to get knocked over. It's all about WAF. OTOH, once she sees the Target stands I will want for mini's she might change her mind. She rules the living room which is OK since the den (and kitchen) are 100% mine.
The #1 spouse choice is a pair of 4" round Gallo's but that won't cut it.
timrhu and petland speak truth. sub issue IMO depends on sub and settings... if waf is met with original kestral looks and they indeed do sound equal to K2's you should consider those. i bought nearly new K'2 for about same price so i too think price is high. UNLESS a monitor is firmly mounted to $$$ lead/sand filled stands they will topple easier than kestrals. 6 yr old will get 'safety' lecture in either event. placing MOST speakers close to wall will generally present warm sound anomoly. less so with front ported design as with kestral. what made you give up on floorstanders or have you? $1K monitors with flat low bass in big space, sounds great to me!;)
"just so listenable" is a perfect description Wdrazek. And they won't take up any more room than monitors on stands. I gave up on trying to get good, "listenable" sound from monitors when I purchased my Kestrel HRs. However, I think the price the referenced seller is asking is ridiculous. That's why they've been listed so long, maybe the second time.
Wdrazek, I'd grab the original Kestrel HR in Mahogany that a dealer has NIB and has been advertising for some time here. I have them playing right now as I write in a room almost identical to yours with a kitchen facing in. they are being driven by an RM9. they never cease to amaze me for the money. they fill the room with accurate tone and are just so listenable but still with plenty of deatil. A sub would only muck them up. You won't go wrong. If I had any room for them I would snap them up myself. P
Right you are. It's a little like New York that way but when I looked for a Neat retailer Nebraska and West Virginia are my nearest options. Go figure.
Thanks for all of the suggestions. From the looks of it, stand mounts may become necessary after all and in any case they will need to be placed close to a wall. I don't know of a place in Chicago that carries Neat or Reference 3A but I have tracked down Totem, Proac, Dynaudio and Quad so far.
Funny how some brands have their distribution scattered. You would think the 3rd largest US market would have everything.
Well Wdrazek, if you are considering Nait 5i, the Neat Motives have fabulous synergy with that amp, although somewhat over budget. The Motive 3 monitor not too much over your 1k mark, the Motive 2 a little moreso. They're probably too new for many used ones to come up just yet.
If budget has to rule, IMHO the Reference 3a Dulcet outperforms the Kestrel and the Totems in the context you're describing, but of course it is a standmounter.
39" w/o spikes. you may be surprised with the effect of mixing light and dark woodtones in a room. it creates a sense of drama and highlights the wood grain more on all the wood furniture as opposed to all the same tone just muting into a solid blur. imo, the elegant form of this design is artisticly appealing enuf to warant the objet d'art approach. the light ash will work well with darker tones as an example. but hey, this is an audio site, what do i know about your decor ideas ;). i use jolida 60 wpc but honestly would not go much lower. thought you should know
Thanks for the detail on the 2. It sounds like a better way to go. It is a nice looking speaker but the pics I've seen so far of the 2 show it with light to medium finishes only. I need either a rosewood type stain (preferred) or else ebony. Light cherry or similar won't work in the room. Also, I've found that the 1 is 36" tall but haven't yet found a spec for the 2.
The more I think about it, the more sense this makes. A mini needs stands and a sub which would drive the cost way up whereas these could stand on their own and be run with a Nait 5i or Jolida 302/502. Simple and painless.
timrhu is right about covers, but the nice woodwork flows directly to drivers with no plastic or cheater plates to mar the look. K'2's did not offer hr version, went with top quality parts and cut out the hasssle in building 2 types. go to web and i think pictures will show why most folks find the K 2 design more eye appealing. your call tho. i think the WAF will not even be a problem, they look like modern art and the wood is very well finished. a real point of attraction to most of my houseguests. recommend iso pads under basic spkr spikes.
I tried out the Totem model 1s a while back. I did not use them with a sub which they needed. As stated before, I've owned both the Kestrel HRs and Shearwater HRs; both wonderful speakers and I give a nod to the Kestrels for their warmth. One issue to consider is their looks with the grills on. The grills look horrible IMO so ou should make sure the wife doesn't mind speaker with drivers exposed. Never owned the Kestrel IIs but they are far more attractive.
Good point that the sub won't add fullness, just more low bass. I've only heard Kestrels once but was very impressed by the smoothness and listenability without loss of detail. And the web buzz is still very strong even though they're no longer sold.
In this room I need the Kestrel's kind of tonality with the many hard surfaces and little sound absorption available. As I recall they are also an easy drive as well so a Nait could work with them which would not be the case with some mini's like the Dynaudio's. The next questions are version 1 or 2 and HR or no HR?
the kestral 2's will fill the room.... but adding a sub in any situation with smaller towers can help. On impulse i recently bought a closeout M+K 12" 250 watt sub and cross it over at lowest point. sound is not fuller but there is a lot more deep bass feel.(duh) btw, did not mean to offend polk'ies out there, lsi are fine spkrs. and the warm sound described is exactly what i was attemping to define as more forgiving on poor recordings. for the $ tho i still think the kestrals are more true sounding and natural. they do need a break in period so be warned!
I showed the LSi15's photo to the wife and she was not thrilled. Sine the den has my HT and it is everything I wanted the decor of the LR has been ceded to her.
I'll still get her in front of the the LSi's but she wants something the size of the Kestrels/ B&W CM4 (35" max, the height of a side cabinet)or else minis on stands. The latter would require a sub (Sunfire Jr)and will blow the budget but you only live once.
So, will a Kestrel HR or the like fill the 15 x 28 x 9 room as well as a good mini (Proac Tablette, Silverline 15, Totem 1 Signature) plus a sub?
Veroman, have you heard the LSi15's? They're the COMPLETE opposite of what you've described. They're very warm and detailed. I'd actually recommend them for Jazz before Rock. If anything they're main weakness is lower bass.
a little bit beyond your size requirements (but not much) would be a pair of psb silvers. There are a couple different pairs for sale right now, but they're common enough that you should be able to find someone in the chicagoland area selling a pair. A real nice all around speaker.
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