Six DAC Comparison


I am in the middle of comparing the sound of six different DACs in my system. I own them all (I know weird) but one of them is still within a trial/return timeframe.

Not to share specific comparisons today, but a couple of observations so far are that first, they all definitely sound different from each other. On one hand, they all sound pretty good and play what is fed to them without significant flaws but on the other hand there are definite sonic differences that make it easy to understand how a person might like the sound of some of them while not liking others.

Second, raises the observation that most of them must be doing something to shape the sound in the manner the designer intended since one of the DACs, a Benchmark DAC3 HGA, was described by John Atkinson of Stereophile as providing "state-of-the-art measured performance." In the review, JA closed the measurements section by writing, "All I can say is "Wow!" I have also owned the Tambaqui (not in my current comparison), which also measured well ("The Mola Mola Tambaqui offers state-of-the-digital-art measured performance." - JA). The Benchmark reminds me sonically of the Tambaqui, both of which are excellent sounding DACs.

My point is that if the Benchmark is providing "state-of-the-art measured performance," then one could reasonably presume that the other five DACs, which sound different from the Benchmark, do not share similar ’state-of-the-art" measurements and are doing something to subtly or not so subtly alter the sound. Whether a person likes what they hear is a different issue.

mitch2

Showing 8 responses by vthokie83

mitch2

It'll be interesting to see your findings, and what you hear in your system

Trivema & Soix

I still find the Denafrips Pontus II DAC with an Iris DDC via I2S to be the most musical, enjoyable, and fun DAC combo out there. I have upgraded every other component (preamp, 2 amps, speakers, cables, receptacles), but I still do not feel the need to rush out and replace the pair......I find them an incredible bargain

I have tested several $4,000 to $5,000 DACs along the way (I won't mention names because I don't want an argument), and still find my liking for the Pontus/Iris combo.

Yes I absolutely will upgrade my DAC at some point within the next year, and yes I know there is better sound to be had......but I will take my time to make sure it still has that fun and enjoyable sound that I currently have. I lust for a Lampizator Pacific or Poseidon, but that'll have to wait a couple of years

brbrock

Electrical engineers, forgive me if I misspeak anywhere below

I cannot comment on the DACs in mitch2's comparison, but I can comment on the benefits of a DDC with most (not all) streamers or CD transports.....and specifically the Denafrips Pontus II/Iris combination, but that applies to most other DACs. Sorry for the detailed information, but I appreciated the education when I first got it.

(1) Crystal Oscillator - The basic clock in the Pontus II is a standard (though very high quality) FEMTO clock. Crystal oscillators (clocks) and their performance are affected by temperature variation, thus the need to keep the clocks at as stable a temperature as possible.....but that, and the implementation of, can get expensive. The better the clock, the better the stability and the sound quality, the higher the price.

Most low to mid quality DACs have a FEMTO clock that has no compensation for temperature, thus minor fluctuations in it's performance.

The next step up is a TCXO (temperature compensated crystal oscillator), where the temperature is controlled by the use of thermistors and insulation of the crystal oscillator.

The next step up from there is an OCXO (oven controlled crystal oscillator), which uses an internally adjustable "mini oven" to keep the crystal at optimum operating temperature.

As I mentioned, the clock in the Pontus II is a high quality FEMTO clock with no temperature compensation, The crystal oscillator in the Iris is the higher quality TCXO temperature compensated crystal oscillator. The next step up Hermes and the top of the line Gaia use an OCXO oven controlled crystal oscillator.

(2) Galvanic isolation - This isolates signals by using magnetic components. All Denafrips DDCs use a galvanic opto coupler, optically and galvanically isolating the signal

(3) Optical isolation - This isolates the signal by converting to an optical transmission using lasers, thus eliminating electrical contamination......usually with an opto-coupler. All Denafrips DDCs use a galvanic opto-coupler, optically and galvanically isolating the signal

(4) USB - USB transmission does not contain a clock signal, it is assigned by the receiving device. USB directly into a DAC has the DAC assigning the clock, USB into a DDC has the DDC assigning the clock which would then be passed to a DAC. High end streamers do a very good job of transferring USB data, so less phase shift and jitter; and some with very high end streamers have reported little/no benefit from a DDC.

(5) AES/EBU and SPDIF - These signals do include a clock signal that is generated by the sending device, however the clock is imbedded with the data signal and must be separated by the DAC/DDC. Higher end DACs/DDCs will correct or even regenerate the clock signal, and some have the ability to turn that feature off if the incoming signal is superior

(6) I2S - This is the protocol that DACs (and other digital devices) use internally to process data, so any USB, AES/EBU, SPDIF signal must be converted to I2S in the DAC/DDC. The great thing about the DDC is that it handles this conversion, and then can (if the connection is available) transmit that same I2S data to a DAC. The I2S signal has a separate pinout to transmit the clock, so it does not have to be parsed by the DAC; the DAC just converts the digital signal to analog with the already converted I2S signal using the separate signal for the clock.

I suspect this is partially why so many people report that the I2S connection sounds best versus other inputs. Some external devices (streamers or CD transports) can natively output I2S, so a DDC might not be needed. Jay's Audio and PSAudio CD transports have I2S output, and PSAudio/HiFi Rose/Silent Angel/Matrix/Pi2/Holo Audio all have I2S outputs.

That last part "PSAudio/HiFi Rose/Silent Angel/Matrix/Pi2/Holo Audio all have I2S outputs." I should have noted are streamers or music servers

stuartk

The Jay's CD transports do have an excellent OCXO clockl, their transports are excellent in my experience. The Jay's CD transports have 4 different connections: RCA unbalanced SPDIF, BNC unbalanced SPDIF, AES/EBU balanced connections, and of course I2S.

In all of those connections, the digital data and the clock are sent by the transport; and the DAC will use the transport's clock data.

Using the unbalanced RCA/BNC SPDIF connections, the Jay's will transmit the digital data and the clock packed together, in an unbalanced format, and the DAC will then unpack the data and clock, convert back to I2S, and then perform the digital to analog conversion. Some higher end DACs may have the ability to regenerate the clock signal.

The AES/EBU connection will transport the data and clock together, in a balanced format (balanced will do a better job of ensuring the data arrives correctly). That said, the DAC will still unpack the data and clock, convert to I2S, and then convert the digital data to analog.

The I2S connection will transport the data and clock separately, so no need for the DAC to unpack it from the data, and no need to convert to I2S for the DAC, and then the DAC will convert the digital data to analog.

In my opinion (and through some experience), I would use the I2S connection if possible, the AES/EBU if I2S is not available, and the SDIF connections as a last option. 

Yes it would, you'd want to keep the oven controlled crystal oscillator in the Jay's transport as the master clock

no_regrets

You're welcome, lot's of really smart people on these threads have helped me for the last bunch of years as well

no_regrets

Using the Jay's Audio CD transport as the example, here is the preferred order of connections (IMO). In each case the clock from the Jay's will be used, it's just how the clock is received (separate or imbedded, see my previous post):

(1) I2S if your DAC has that connection

(2) AES/EBU if your DAC has that connection

(3) SPDIF (either RCA, coax, or optical....whichever your DAC has)

The outlier is USB. Some streamers and or DACs (usually higher end gear) are optimized for USB, over other connections.

All of that said, there is no substitution for your ears. In almost all of my tests with different gear (many DACs, DDCs, CD transports, and streamers), I have preferred the I2S connection almost every time (if the units have that I2S connection). On units that did not have I2S, I mostly preferred the AES/EBU connection.....that's my ears in my system, or in systems I know well.

One more point that should be noted, is that AES/EBU are digital cables (XLR connector type) that are 110 ohm cables, and NOT the standard 75 ohm cables like XLR analog interconnects