Thanks. Has it happens I buy all my input tubes from Brent, for years. I may give him a call.
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One amplifier I know I loved was a vac Renaissance 30/30. Push pull 300B output tubes. It doesn't have enough power for my current speakers, but I've heard about 300B SET amps. I have to wonder how amazing they must sound. I'm going to research these a bit. Maybe they are all low powered. I have thought about a vac Renaissance 70/70 or 140/140, but the cost of 300b tubes these days is pretty daunting. The 30/30 and a shindo montrachet are probably the greatest amplifiers I've ever owned, from a goosebumps musical point of view.
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Guys this is really been a valuable discussion. I appreciate all the great feedback. I think I'm going to hold on the set amps and either keep the amp I have and try KT120s, or possibly one day keep an eye for a 300B push pull amp like the vac Renaissance 30/70 or 70/70.
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Yes the six pack goes well beyond two subs, in some small ways on soundstage, etc. I found the biggest benefit of the six pack to be how it makes each instrument and each voice sound more like the real thing in real space. The texture, the timbre, and the ambience around it... Like good vinyl does. The six pack was the first step in my realization that I could get good, musical sound from digital. After getting an audio note UK DAC and a Grimm AU-1 streamer, I decided to sell my analog rig and take a break from analog. This coming from a guy who only a year ago listened to 80% vinyl!
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I just read the owners manual for the 805 AE and it says there is adjustable feedback from 0-10. I thought there was no adjustment with this model, which is the one I'm thinking about because it has optional 211 or 845 tube. Maybe this would allow me to dial down the size of images... at least one reviewer suggested it could.
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Thanks for the response. You are preaching to the choir on all those points :) We are in the same place relative to sterile neutrality, etc. I wouldn't put Audio Research in the Cary and old CJ camp, but generally I'm in big agreement with you. I am not after pinpoint imaging... I just don't want it to be oversized, like I remember hearing from the 805b amps. I'm just wondering if that comes with the territory with all SET amps... or not.
Yes my REL subs are professionally dialed in by a dealer, and I have a lot of experience with subwoofers for 20 years. I'm always preaching to people about not overdoing it on subs, having too high of a crossover point etc., when the mains are run full range like mine are. These subs are beautifully integrated and added so much to my system.
I will not be changing speakers because I love my system right now ... just wanting to try SET again. My current amps are Quicksilver v4 monos with KT-150s.
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Thanks guys!
sns: My two large I'm really talking more about instruments. 4 ft violin, 12 ft wide piano etc. it just doesn't ring true to my brain... Like my head is one foot from the violin or something. Let's be clear I don't have this kind of problem right now. The imaging is pretty perfect in my room with my quicksilvers.
Decooney: thanks for the great thoughts about quicksilvers. Yeah my v4s had the caps replaced with mundorf before I got them. I'm struggling to remember which mundorf they are. It has occurred to me to upgrade to Jupiter copper and wax, or deulend, etc. But I have not tried KT 120's nor have I ever even heard them! Any specific thoughts on sonic differences between the KT150 and the KT120 in your quickies? I do like the dynamics I have and I hate to lose any of that.
The truth is I'm very happy with the sound of my system right now, but just wondering what's out there that I might be missing such as the set magic. YOU KNOW HOW THIS SICKNESS IS. Maybe what I should do is think about more amp upgrades and cable upgrades, and not go down the set road. If the big upfront images are just endemic to SET, I probably should save myself the brain damage.
Decooney are there other upgrades to the Quicksilver amps besides the main caps? Would love to hear about anything. Interesting that you came from SET to Quicksilver.
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Yes sns I think the "oversized" feeling and the distance perspective are one and the same. I don't like a forward presentation, and this perceived distance to the performers gives the illusion of size, to me. If all SET amps are forward-sounding, I should probably not go that direction. Does anyone know if a forward sound is just part of the territory, or if some SET amps don't have this?
Decooney: I am pretty sure the caps I have in my v4 amps are Mundorf Supremes.
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Thanks for that great explanation. You and I are cut from the same cloth. I spent years with a cj MV-52 then an MV60 and totally came from EL34 listing paradigm! I value the mid-range over everything. If it's not correct I don't care about anything else. I have voiced my system around the v4s with the KT150s, and I think the rest of my system makes them a little more mid-range wonderful, but it may be due to system balance not due to the tubes. I just bought a shunyata Everest which opened up dynamics and clarity. I think it would be really interesting to try the KT-120 tubes. I will think about that! Not sure whether trying to upgrade from mundorf Supremes in my v4s is worth it?
Thanks
Stu
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I will check into Audio Mirror. Thanks.
Regarding imaging, the other thing worth mentioning is the recording. Certainly there are recordings that are close mic'd pianos, for example, and therefore the piano will sound giant even if it's perfectly reproduced. But I just don't want images to be much larger than they would sound with a normal push pull amplifier, which I find fools my brain into thinking it's a real instrument and real space. As one of you pointed out this may be partly due to what each of us gets accustomed to over time. So it could be just my preference.
Regarding how much money I want to spend, I bought my REL subs used and have about $12,000 invested in the subs and cables. One of the best upgrades I ever made, and not just for bass. They make everything sound so much more real and more analogue. It's not easy to understand exactly why that is, but it is. $7,000 on a used amplifier probably equates to a $15,000 retail, so I don't know why that seems so odd. Also I don't know that it's always meaningful to calibrate how much money you put into each component, especially at this level. Just picking the right component is more important. And of course affordability comes into play. My Quicksilver amps were $6,500 new and I bought them for $3,000 used. They are quite at home in a system of almost any level.
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Thanks. I think you all provide good advice. Unless I can get a loan to try, I may just try some tube rolling ing v4 amps, such as trying kt-120 or kt88 tubes. Or think about one of my lost loves, the vac Renaissance 300b amp, which is pure magic and would achieve some of what I want to try. But need the 30/70 or 70/70 versions, and it's a lot of 300b tubes.
My Parsifals are early models and I believe are 89dB. Later models like the anniversary, and maybe the ovation, have higher efficiency.
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Yes I have no doubt that other subwoofer brands can create that same effect. I wasn't trying to be brand specific but more stating the idea of having a number of subwoofers, set to different crossovers and volumes In a certain way adds a dimension to the sound that I did not think subwoofers could provide.
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I have always used the stock ones that Mike Sanders provides. Until recently a friend gave me a pair of new old stock Raytheon12bh7. I haven't really sat down and tried to compare them... Just putting some hours on them.
Any specific recommendations for replacement tubes are appreciated!
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Kenny_c: I don't think that's it... I've always considered mid-range my priority and I love tube amps because they get the mid-range right. I just remember comparing Carrie 805 to my VTL amps at the time, and the Cary images a little forward and large. Dennis had seems to have acknowledged this was intentional.
Sounds_real_audio: I actually love my verity parsifal speakers. I'm very happy with the sound of my system right now but I'm just looking for a way to make it better (the sickness). I think a return to the 300B amps, wish I know I love, is worth a shot. I may trade a bit of macro dynamics for mid textures and magic.
Thanks
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Interesting! Thanks Ralph.
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