The sim gear is good but is rolled off in the highs and with the tweeter where it is on the b&ws I dont think that would be such a great match. Also Sim has a really low resale value Its less than half. The classe is much more natural sounding and the resale value is a little higher. I found the classe to be a little to warm.(I like warm but not to warm) I use Mark Levinson and I found that to be ONE of the most neutral and natural sounding peices of equipment I have ever tried. I had b&ws 802 series3 matrix when I had my 331 and that was awesome. I now use a levinson 335 and martin logan ascents very nice combo also. What are you using for a cd player and preamp that is very important to know when giving advice such as this. I hope this helps. |
I recently purchased a Bryston 4B-ST. They jury is still out. It has been barely broken in and there seems to be a slight edge to the upper mid range. My first impression is that a slightly warmer amp such as Classe may sound more engaging with the Nautilus 804. Also check your hotmail email. |
Thanks a lot for responding preamp B&K ref 30, cd rotel rcd 991. |
Ok I would not mix the sim with b&k. B&K is cold and dark sounding(no offense). I used to own a b&k ex 4420 and a pro10 mc preamp also b&k. The rotel has a warm touch to it so thats why you may not hear that coldness from the b&k. Krell also seems to be a good match with b&ws I also used a krell ksa150 on my 802s but krell also can be bright and analytical sounding. Thats why I sold it. If your mind is made up and you only want sim or classe then classe is the sure winner. If you want to step up higher try the mark levinson gear. Iam not sure what your budget is but I can help you put a wonderful system together if you like let me know how much you want to spend.If your budget is tight and you only use cds then get a great power amp and a great cd player that you can run directly with no preamp.( must have an anologe volume control) such as Levinson 39 which is a preamp and a cd player. Theta miles ,Metronome cd2v or the wadia gear but it has a digital volume control but it has adjustable gain stages. I hope I havent screwed you up? Let me know if I can help. Regards Daniel |
Thanks a lot now you really screwed me up and have me thinking. No, I really like the Levinson amp 334 or 335 but it might be out of my budget range for now. I have heard the Sim and really like the bass slam it is so tight and deep but you are right the high kind of roll off and just a tiny bit harsh on the side. I have not heard CA-201 but heard the CA-151 Classe is more natural and sweet on the midrange and high but the bass is not that good so you know what I mean I am really confused and don't know what to do? Thanks again. |
I drive my B&W Nautilus 803 with a W5. It sounds very good to me, fast, great bass and very neutral. I run it through a Blue Circle valve preamp and use amperex tubes which smooths out the high end, to my taste anyway. Which happens to cover a wide range of the musical spectum
Perhaps the reason that Simaudio loses value quickly is that it is overpriced in the US. In Canada a W5 can be had for $3k (US).
I think that it is a good match and it is worth considering |
You can not go wrong with the Sim Audio W-5. I bought one about a year ago and totally quit trying to upgrade my system. Since I got it, all I do is listen and enjoy. The resale value is in line with other manufacturers. Most of the used units you see for sale are listed at the price of a new unit in Canada. The Levinson stuff does not compare with the Sim Audio products. I've seen and heard this product line and was not impressed. Try the Sim W-5. Excellent build quality, great sound and looks. |
Msnloeth: To make at statement such as you did that the levinson doesnt compare to the sim is a very ignorant statement. The Sim gear is good but its not in the same league as the Levinson and most of the audio community will agree. Yes the Sim is biult well. Yes the Sim has good bass. The rolled off top end and the tizz you get in the b&w tweeter from the sim is not musical. The Levinson is much more refined than the Sim and far from rolled of actually its very sweet sounding and the mids are like liquid and the bass is great. I wonder if you know the diffrence between highend audio and ENTRY level high end. I didnt post this to disrespect anyone or to knock a good product but statements like that are just so far from true that it upsets me. GOONE you listen and make the choice its a no brainer when you have them both together. Sometime the tweeter on top of the b&ws can be a tiny tiny bit brite in the syblince( which is the s in a word that the artist is singing) and thats why you should never put equipment that is even a little brite with them. B&Ws are great speakers. Feed them with good power. good luck |
Lev335..The Sim Audio W-5 is rated class A and if it upsets you that I prefer it over your brand then I guess you just better grow up and get over it. Its too bad people like you are so insecure that they use forums like this to get others to agree with their (sometimes questionable)buying decisions. I believe Goone30's origional post had to do with Sim Audio vs. Classe equipment. What does that have to do with you owning Levinson equipment? Tell it to some one who cares.
MSNLoeth |
Settle down guys, it's just a hobby. No one else's opinion about your gear should matter. You pay your money, you takes your choices. Goone, I would listen to the Classe CA-201 if you can. You talk about the bass being a little soft on the 151, this is the main complaint I've heard about the Classe amps. I own the CA-200, and have heard the 300 and 400. I can tell you that the more power you get from Classe, the better the bass gets. The CA-400 has bass about as deep and tight as I've heard ( I wish I could afford it.) I can't say I've listened to the lower powered amps ( 200 wpc is my minimum ) but I would think the line would continue in the same direction. So don't judge the 201 by the 151, the family signature should be prtty much the same, but I would think the bass to be more authoritative in the 200. I hope this was helpful, try not to think too much, I know it can make your head hurt. |
Goone as I stated you really need to listen for yourself. And let your ears decide. Its all great gear and I like to also give other suggestions about gear I really enjoy.Such as the Levinson. That doesnt mean that the levinson is the only great gear in the world there are many. And as for people such as MSNLOETH dont even take what he says into play and the reason for that is because he SEEMS like the type that will knock every brand of audio gear if he doesnt own it. For him to say that the Levinson does not compare to the Sim Audio w-5 is one of the most ignorant statements of the year. And not one of a true audiophile just one who likes equipment for what people think and not what he hears.As I have said Sim is good gear rolled off in the highs and I dont think the tonal accuracy is on the money. But still a good amp It just requires careful equipment matching. I dont like the fact that the resale value is so low I have seen the w-5 selling for less than half of the list price. Maybe because there is only 14 dealers in the entire world for them? I am not sure what it could be. The classe has a more natural presentation and I agree with jmcgrogan2 in his post. So remeber if someone who CLAIMS to now about audio doesnt even acknowledge another great peice of equipment and only praises what they have then disregard their advice. If it is between the sim or the classe then I will say go for the classe. I only recommended the levinson because I have had many years of hands on exsperience with their products. But there is many great brands so Iam sure you will find a winner no matter what you buy. Good Luck and best wishes. P.S.: just because stereophile rates something in class A of their reccomended componets doesnt mean you will feel as they did when you listen to it. So MSNLOETH feels that because the sim is in class A it makes it better than other things that may or may not be in stereophile. Dont make the same mistake take those reviews as insight only and you do the actual reviewing from your home. Your findings with a product will have the most influence in your purchase. Good Luck |
OK, guys I really appreciate any suggestion and I agreed certain gears need to be set-up correctly to take the full advantage of the system. Here today I spend almost 5 hours at 2 different store listen to Conrad Johnson MFM 2500, Krell 300i with the 804 and none of them I like conrad is just too warm but the MF and HF is very good but the bass is kind of flat. Krell on the other hand is wonderful on bass tight and deep but it is way too bright for my taste especially on the nautilus tweeter. Then I went to another store listen to Classe 201, Proceed HPA 2, and then the big one Mark Levison 335 on the Thiel 2.3 or something did not remember exactly the model number. The classe is just wonderful and sweet on the midrange and hi treble it just so smooth and I would say romantic bass is just OK. Proceed on the other hand is more detail little brighter and more slam on the bottom then Classe need to go with the tube pre-amp like audio control LS-15. And then just for curiousity I tested out the ML 335 and boy oh boy I was amazed the sound that came out of that speaker it just did everything right MH, HF, low bass, high bass everything thing was done correct never sound any bright or harsh at all and especially when we turned off the light listen to Frank Sinatra me and my nephew thought Frank was standing right there singing to us (Wow that is a scary thoughts). Well then again its cost more than double the other three amps it has to sound good. And going back to the Simm I think it also is very special on the bass its produces some serious deep and so TIGHT but like Levinson335 said its is kind a roll off the high compared to the overpriced Krell it is much much better I think. So I guess I have to audioned the Classe myself at home with my current set-up and tried it out but thanks again for a lot of good info.
Levison 335 I think the Lev is just out of my budget at this moment right now. |
And again sorry but I don't think the Sim is even in the same class with the Levinson no no way. (just my opinion I am very sure whoever own the Sim is very happy with their gear it very good a friend of mine had one and he loves it but it does not compared to the ML) Thanks |
Goone, I have the Classe CA 300 amp and find it very smooth and powerful. Have matched my CA 300 to my friend's B+W 804N's. To my ears, the Classe has the best sound of any amp we've tried with his system (including Bryston, Levinson, Proceed, Thule and VTL). I've had good luck with Classe thus far. Highly recommended.
By the way, I agree that Levinson makes some great gear; have always been a fan of Levinson design and build quality. However, after owning Classe for the last year, I would be inclined to consider the Omega or Omnicron amps if I were spending that kind of cash. |
I've been on this site for years now and seldom if ever get involved in these discussions. I only offered my opinion because Sim Audio equipment is too often knocked based on its (perceived)resale value. Comparing the cost of a used piece of equipment to its List Price does not always give accurate results. If the cost of the Levinson 335 and the Sim Audio W-5 were the same I probably would own the ML too. Factor in cost however and at least for me it is a different story. To Lev 335... sorry for jumping all over you following your initial post. My initial take on your post was incorrect and after reading it again you were probably were being more fair than I initially thought. As far as my post being ignorant I guess it was (at the time)intended to be. Sorry about that. I'm going to listen to some music now.... |
Msnloeth, Not a problem. Its just that sometimes people misunderstand me and think all I like is levinson when the bottom line is I like what ever brings the music to its most exalted level in my system. And for so far its been the Levinson. I have owned Krell Classe Levinson B&k and rotel and I have tried many other brands such sim audio and as I think they make a respectable product I didnt feel that it had the resolution or top end of equal to the Levinson. And if you own Sim and took offense to what I said Iam truly sorry. Regards Daniel |
Goone:
I am in similar shoes as you and have the CA201 and Moon W5 (among others) on my short list, though not to run with B&W. (Its Proacs for me.) I can't offer any additional observations to what has been hotly debated here(and I do love Levinson gear by the way, but out of my budget), but let me offer this, lately I am finding increasing interest and desireabilty in some other lines I had not previously considered, mainly the Electroacompaniet (120 or 180 monos) and the EVO 200.2 by Bel Canto. Not that I am sold yet on these, but they have become solid contenders for me. You may want to check them out (if only to further add to the confusion:) I think, at the end of the day, we should not get overly obsessed with it. Yes, if I were to compare my system to other higher priced amps, I can indentify my systems faults, but in day-to-day listening, I find I get used to my system with its faults and will enjoy its sound nonetheless. So, make a decission, enjoy it (which is what this hobby is all about) and then in the future, buy a Levinson if you can affort it.
Matt |
