McCormack DNA-2 LAE (Limited Anniversary Edition) 300 wpc @ 8ohm and 600 wpc @ 4 ohm. |
I would like to know what stehno is now using for a amp? |
Mr. Tweekerman, you are a diplomat and a gentleman. My apologies for offending any one with my sometimes dogmatic biases.
My opinion on the amps do remain the same as I have listened to both the Nemo's and I owned the W-5. But they were completely different systems as well. The Nemo system being much more expensive.
Nevertheless, I shall be more sensitive in the future or simply refrain.
-John |
Mr. Stehno has a right to state his full and honest opinion, as does Mr. Celery. But if you listen carefully AND read between the lines seems Stehno's has some bias and distortion, 2 qualities nobody likes in their systems. Electrocompaniet makes one of the best CDP and all the reviews are GUT-SOUL-PRAISES (audioreview.com 33 reviews). They have been making power amps for 30 years and are very well known for their SUPERIOR craftmanship. Never heard the Sim. I had one dealer trying to sell me a product "Doesn't that sound great!!" I thought maybe he's losing his hearing due to age or something, for it sounded horrible. Just a point. Has nothing to do with Sim. I'm sure they make fine products. But i have some reservations about Mr. Stehno's comments. One other thing the Electro's are less expensive. Any Electro owners out there that'll say just how are the highs mids and especially the low frequencies of their amps. As always, Friends |
hi matt,
dunno what to make of the above thread, oh well... all i know is that i used to have a pair of older ec amps, an aw75 & an aw100, running in a horizontally bi-amped set-up driving my speakers. now, i have a pair of the more recent aw60ftt's running in a vertically bi-amped configuration.
all i can say is the ec amps are extremely detailed & accurate, w/a great soundstage presence, w/o a trace of hardness, or any other typical *solid-state* attributes that get talked about in your tube-vs-solid-state debates.
no, i have not heard the sim gear, but i *do* know that i won't be getting any new amps, until the time comes that i can afford the care & feeding of some monster tube amps that will offer perhaps a smidgeon more soundstage depth w/o sacrificing anything that good solid-state amps do...
doug s. |
I really did not want to stir up an argument so sorry about that. I am sure these both are good amps when in the right system. There are many people that like the Electro gear which is what caught my attention, but it is very difficult when you cannot audtion that gear and determine what gives you the most bang for the buck. The Moon is at least a known entity to me so that is probably my front runner at this point, however I suppose that could change again before I finally shell out the money. Thanks for your opinions.
MAtt |
I really did not want to stir up an argument so sorry about that. I am sure these both are good amps when in the right system. There are many people that like the Electro gear which is what caught my attention, but it is very difficult when you cannot audtion that gear and determine what gives you the most bang for the buck. The Moon is at least a known entity to me so that is probably my front runner at this point, however I suppose that could change again before I finally shell out the money. Thanks for your opinions.
MAtt |
Please insert "sweet" instead of warm. I stand by my previous statements even with the word substitution. I hope Peter Moncrief will forgive me.
Please Audiogon ))!!!!!!!!!END THIS THREAD!!!!!!!!(( There are alot more things to do in this world then fight about gear opinions. Electrocompaniet may not be for you but that is no reason to bash it. I think it is wonderful gear that deserves to be heard and SIM gear is quite good and deserves an audition too. They present music in two very different windows.
Different strokes for different folks. |
Nice to know you think so highly of reviewers and base your own thoughts on their opinions. You are an enlightened person. Your comments utilizing professional viewers quotes to prove your points certainly makes a lasting impression with me. Thank you for setting me straight. Peter Mocriefs views will influence my thoughts and hearing experiences as well as your dealer demo opinions on stereo equipment. Are you actually quoting as gospel the same Peter Moncrief who said the Verity Audio Parisfals are terrible speakers? Yet, Stereophile said the Fidelios, the smaller version of the Parisfals (which have about 70% of the parisfal's capabilities) were one of the better speakers they had heard at any price and gave them a class A rating. I believe these same Parisfals have been awarded several Best in Show awards by every major audio magazine. Hmmm......what is going on here? Is everyone else in the high end community insane and Peter is the lone voice of reason? How can it be??? Perhaps we should look to your idea of "homework" which in your opinion are quite clearly "professional" reviews for the answers that perplex us in this hobby. What do we do when we have one reviewer, who in your case you quote as gospel disagreeing with everyone else in the high end audio press? Is he a lone Martin Luther with just cause or could it be that he is wrong yet again. If he says Sim is warm and the Parisfals are bad he needs a hearing aid of the highest order and you need a new prophet to base your listening "opinions" on. Please refrain from regurgitated copyrighted review quotes and your "in-depth" dealer demo observations. Do your own "homework", that is listen to equipment in your own home to form an opinion. At least then it will be your own opinion, not Peter Moncrief's.
Electrocompaniet only manufactures one pre-amplifier model at a time. There is no "bottom of the line" pre amplifier in their line up. Thanks for your thoughts on gear you have demonstrated very clearly you know nothing about. Perhaps you can come back with a witty, hostile rebutle quoting even more copyrighted material from the audio press. Your "opinions" are wonderful. |
Not sure where celery got the 'warm' from. But I should expect such an ignorant response from one who thinks the I-5 would be the sonic equivalent of the W-5. Celery obviously never listened to a W-5. That's like saying celery's older bottom of the line Electro amp and pre-amp that he is now selling is as good as Electro's top of the line. I'm sure he believes this too.
But I did mention the W-5 adds a certain sweetness to the sound. In fact, International Audio Review's Peter Moncrief listed the W-5 tied as the 3rd best solid state amp in 1999.
An excerpt from that review "... . The Moon W-5 hits almost ideally the best possible compromise for a no-feedback design. It's sound features a relaxed, easy quality that almost let you forget that you're listening through solid state equipment. Yet it's sound is also very clean and clear, close to the best solid state amps that do use loop feedback. ... . The Moon offers a wonderful balance between the clean articulation typical of solid state and the sweet relaxation typical of tube sound. ..."
Celery, do your homework before spouting off sarcastic remarks.
-John |
Elevator music from the Nemos? Thanks for giving us all such an "accurate" view of a dealer demo. Not suprising since you said in your original statement that Sim gear is "warm" which is way off the mark. Not to many people will ever accuse Sim of being warm kit. Analytical, yes, warm, no way. They are two very distinct sounds. Don't buy the Sim and don't buy the EC if you plan on getting the Talon audio speakers (saw in a post you were asking about the Ravens). They sound excellent with the Bel Canto EVo's with a solid state pre amplifier ( you already have that piece to the puzzle). Real synergy there at a great price point. Good luck. |
First, we're not talking about the SimAudio I-5 and the I-5 is most likely in a different (lesser) league than the W-5. Secondly, I've listened to Electro's best $15k monoblock pair amps and, yes, if you like lifeless elevator music with flattened dynamics, rolled off highs, and the overall coloration that the Electro's offer, then by all means go with Electrocompaniet. Yes, you can listen to elevator music your entire life without ever being fatigued because that type of sound reproduction generally never wakes one up.
However, if you want most/all of the information on your cd's to be reproduced in a more accurate fashion, then try the Moon W-5.
-John |
Sweet sounding? Sim is not sweet sounding at all. At times the treble is harsh, and lean. Nice bottom end and accurate midrange but warm???? Uh uh. I have owned both Sim gear (the I5 integrated) and the Electrocompaniet gear. I enjoyed both but felt the EC kit was alot more fun and less fatiguing to listen to. The statement "Sonically, it should blow the doors off of any Electrocompaniet equipment" is really innacurate. They are two very different house sounds. If you like a more etched sound, SIM is your bag. If you like a nice toe tapping musical presentation, the EC is your bag. Opinions are like..well you get the drift. Listen for yourself and find out which makers sound fits your ear. |
Without a doubt, the Moon W-5 is the way to go. It has much going for it, ergonomics, weight, looks, price, and of course the sonics. Sonically, it should blow the doors off of any Electrocompaniet equipment. Assuming you like music with detail.
I had owned the Moon W-5 for a time. It is a fast amp able to better illustrate inter-transient silence, initial attacks, better decays, appears to have more wpc than the stated 190 WPC, and has a certain sweet sound that you may just fall in love with.
I moved on to another amp, even better IMO than the W-5, and the new owner of my W-5 absolutely loves it.
I've owned about 5 or 6 amps over the last few year (the Moon being the second last). It was the Moon that convinced me that the amp is the key to any good sounding system. Assuming the surrounding components are at least adequate.
Below is what the new owner had to say of the Moon W-5:
"... Anyway, even before the room change, this combo sounds fantastic! All categories of critical listening are significantly improved by this set-up. The most striking things are the clear, taught bass that goes very low, the holographic imaging of the soundstage and the wide dynamics. I find myself putting off all kinds of things to listen a little longer. I really, really really love this set-up!! I can repeat all the usual statements that people make when they get a good set-up: I hear things on CDs that I didn't know was on them, I am enjoying (and hearing more) my old CDs better than ever before, the band sounds like its right in the room,etc., etc.
I think voice is one area that Is especially improved. The texture and timbre are so much more realistic. This is true for both male and female voice, but especially female. Holly Cole, Laurie Anderson and Shawn Colvin are right here in the room with me!! If only Shawn would sit on my lap!!
So yes, the things that you and Anna (Anna Logg of TAS is a member of his audiophile society) predicted (about the W-5) are present. I am a very happy audio nut."
Hope this helps,
-John |
Oops, I meant the AW120 (the 180 are the monoblocks). |
