Its amazing to me how wire reacts so differently in different systems. Of my favorite cables, the Audioquest MontBlanc/Everest sounded oh so great. When I exchanged these for the William F Lowe Sigs, the sound made a marked decrease in quality. My favorite now is Wireworld....the ease that they portray is wonderful... This sense of ease is so important when you hear it, that its hard to listen to other cable ...none of which demonstrates this ability. |
I've read nothing but great things about the Wireworld cables, especially the Silver & Platinum Eclipse speaker cables and interconnects. The Princess price is a bit more than Platinum interconnects especially as you increase length while the Platinum speaker cables price wise fall really close to the King rather than the Prince. The Plats are around $1k US more MSRP than the King for 2 meters. So I can definitely see where these models would all be in competition with each other. The Plat speaker cables are noticeably larger than their siblings due to the larger 9 AWG wire. They look like monsters from the pics I have seen, really thick which is cool.
Of course in the Wireworld lineup the Plats are all she wrote while in the Siltech line up they just keep going upwards beyond Princess for interconnects and King for speaker cables. |
Excellent. I've read the digital cables are very natural sounding provided of course the source is. I sold my Princess to create some funds to go in a different direction with my system, and bought a Wireworld PE7 in the meantime. I won't give my comparison on the cables but I will say I would consider the Princess and PE7 to be direct competitors, but I remain of the opinion that nothing else except Silver/Gold conductors can reach that nth degree of resolution while retaining almost as much musicality as the very best can produce, one of them being Kondo SPz. Interestingly I have tried a Siltech SQ-28 Mkll with Kondo KSL-SPz, this combination seemed to add resolution to the Kondo while enhacing the musicality overall. That said I aim to purchase another Princess in the near future and plan to add Prince speaker cable later, when the £s permit :) keeping the loom the same should reap greater results than the sum of the parts, even if it may be tempting to try Kondo's new heavier guage SPz. |
At long last I finally purchased my 1st Siltech cable. I picked up the Golden Ridge II and had Furutech carbon/rhodium XLR's installed.
Quite the impressive cable aesthetically. I went with 1 meter to keep cost down and avoid excess wire but that nearly backfired. With the cable being so thick and not overly flexible it was close to not being able to be bent back around as it left my Bryston BDP-2 and came back into my Lexicon MC-12. Any shorter and it wouldn't have worked. On the other hand at say 1.5 or 2 meters, given the thickness I'm not sure how well it would have coiled, if at all so that may have presented it's own challenge.
Compared to all my other cables in the back of my rack, this looks like a huge power cable in comparison :) It's very close to the thickness of my Kimber PK-10 Gold power cable.
Very happy though to say the least. Looking forward to adding the Princess next. |
Thanks Deedo, your post was very informative. Certainly looks like I'll have to bite the bullet and get the Princess. |
Hi Brytonuser, I have had 550L, 770i and the Princess, and was able to A/B the Princess in the context of 550L speaker cable. At the time I was using a Sugden IA4, Ayon CD3s and a pair of Totem One limited edition model, I may have had my pair of Totem Embers to hand at that point too but can't be sure. Anyhow I can tell you that the difference between the 770i and Princess was stark. The 770i is excellent and nothing seemed amiss until the Princess was installed, suddenly it was clear that the 770i seemed lacking in the bass and seemed to be more tipped up at the high end and somewhat thinner, something I could never have guessed without having the Princess to compare it with. Oddly, resolution seemed higher with the 770i, but this was infact an illusion created by the overall balance of the cable highlighting the leading edge of the music more in comparison to the micro details/harmonics, whereas with the Princess the balance between micro/macro details were very obviously more in harmony, and there was substantially more structure to both with the Princess. Having experienced this and also endured the burn in process with the Princess, I can see how the Princess may not impress that much following the initial wow period which lasted a couple of days. However, after 300/400 hours of using the Princess I knew it would be impossible to return to the 770i. I hope this helps.
|
Reviving a bit of an older thread. So I had a long conversation with my dealer on the weekend and I now have some actual prices and have been able to start making real plans.
The Princess with tax goes out of my comfort zone for the 4 meter length I think I can get away with so if the length works and I don't need longer I think I might grit my teeth and go for the Princess rather than 770i. My dealer is going to give me some bulk cable so I can more accurately figure out the length I need as the cable snakes it's way down and around stands and out to the amps in a similar fashion to the Siltech cables.
I'm confortable with the price of the Prince but do have another question perhaps bvdiman can share some experience on as he previously mentioned comparison to the King and chose the King over the Prince. Earlier in the thread while discussing the Classic Anniversary series the theme was if one couldn't afford the 770L not to bother with the 550L because the difference was subtle in comparison to the 330L thus this would be the one to get, not the 550L. Is this similar when comparing to the King, if one can't afford the Emperor II (which I can't and the King is out of my comfort zone kind of like the Princess) then does it make more sense to go with Prince rather than King?
I assume there would be another noticeable, no subtle audible improvement such that exists between 770L and Prince or 330L and 770L when comparing the Emperor II to the Emperor Crown and then perhaps a subtle difference comparing Crown to Double Crown?
I'll also throw this out there again, has anyone done a comparison between the 770i and Princess? If so what was your findings. |
thanks Bvdiman
I checked out that review. Like you say the reviewer basically came to the same conclusion as my dealer.
I'm not at all familiar with the previous generation lineups. Are you saying that the Compass model occupied essentially the same position as the Princess does today or were they the precursor to the Empress, Empress Crown or Double Crown?
Have you personally ever heard the Princess? |
I bought 2 sets of the new Audiogest Wel Signature. With the new xlr plugs. What makes it special is that I never heard such a physical papable individual focus. It is exeptional good in letting you hear very easy differences in height. The same thing about the black level. They bring music into a new dimension. i did not have this experience at any audio show. And also not with other expensive audio cables. Cabels are still improving in quality.
Question to you all; did Siltech bring out many new cables the last few years? |
Hi Brystonuser,
http://hifi-unlimited.blogspot.com/2009/08/tale-of-three-heavenly-fairy-sisters.html
Link to an old review which I've posted elsewhere in which summary seems to relate what's been advised by your dealer i.e. get 330 or straight to 770--skip the 550. Cheers!
*Oops, review on SCs whereas question posed was ICs.. But guess it's relevant enough. ;) |
Excerpt from Marc's Sounstage review 2008 :
"And there the single pair of WEL Signature interconnects and the speaker cables have been ever since. I've had to remove them a couple of times for reviewing purposes, but they didn't go unused for long. I still have fond memories of the very expensive Siltech Signature Compass Lake interconnects and The Emperor speaker cables I wrote about a few years ago -- Siltech's best at the time, and the best I had come across. There's no question that the WEL Signature cables deserve to be discussed along with them, and they are far less expensive."
*Compass/Emperor are Siltech's vintage flagship (from early 2000), yet interestingly still held as benchmark then. And I can tell you that their current Crown/DoubleCrown series are in totally different playing field altogether. Albeit, at a cost. |
Even with Nordost and Kimber I did win many shootouts in the past of clients who also lend Silltech cables. These were all very different sets compared to eachother.
I always advice to test more different stuff. Even to clients I advice to test brands I do not sell. Because I like things to be open. And yes audio is always a personal matter. I would star blind one one brand. I am also brand loyal. When I find a brand I prefer, that will become the new reference. Audio is all about to find the best thing for you.
In the US you oftn can buy stuff and when you don't want it you can send it back. I would use this option to compare. Comparing is a lot of fun to do and you will find that brand what you prefer. Good luck and enjoy it! |
Tried Audioquest Wel Signature loom in my system last year (SC, ICs, PCs, RJ/E). Good resolution, speed, clarity and image specifity. However, high and bass were a tad thin, overall presentation were a little mechanical with tendency to slight brightness (upper mid/lower treble). Bass was also a little weak/light. But biggest deal breaker for me was that they lack the dense/weighty, organic, 3-dimensional palpability as when compared to the other looms I had on hand (StageIII, Tara, N.Odin). Brought and tested them in two other friend's systems, slightly different results but inherent characters were acknowledged as being all the same. They did fare a little better when I swapped out their PCs and RJ/E.. But oh well. Anyways, I always prefer to run/test cabling in loom from same brand--everything in-synch as I call it--whenever possible.
As Brystonuser puts it, yes, we sure do hear things differently, as well, different set of preference/system/music taste etc.--hence choices. Perhaps AQ is the best match for the Monitor Audio, Onkyo, Sony, Oddysey and Kemp electronics you are selling.. But not necessarily for others--so no need to put down other competing brands when conducting your business BO. Goodluck. |
I give you a story about Slissstech. I remember that they raised their prices, but for dealers they lowered the prices. So that they could give more discount. Many shops didn't like this approach. I sold a lot Audioquest in the last 2 years to people with MIT cables. The reason is very simple; they outperform the MIT with ease. They have done more development, and are more complete. |
Everyone prefers and hears things differently. For example I don't understand the fascination people have with MIT and Transparent cables. As an example why Transparent's balanced cables cost a lot more than their unbalanced cables. Sure they incldue a 2nd network box but a balanced cable is a balanced cable, it's not like Transparent have somehow reinvented transmission over balanced connections. Regardless people swear by these cables. |
I am from the Netherlands were Slissssstech is comming from.
Many people who also work in the world of audio don't like the
people of Slisstech. Very arrogant people. In the Netherlands
they lost a big part of the market for better cables. It is not
that popular anymore. I have tested them in the past. I only
liked their digital cables a lot. these days it is easily to
outperform their cables. I did win many shootouts against
Slisstech cables at clients of mine. I never understood why
people are that interested in these Slisssstech cables! |
Hey guys I have another question. After reading the comments about how the larger gain in sound between the 770L and Prince vs the Prince and King was between the 770L and Prince, if funds permit I'm going to try and aim for the Prince. Even at the shortened lengths I would need i.e. < 2m the King would be to much money.
Were any of you able to do a comparison between the 770i and Princess? If so was the difference as noticeable as it was between the 770L and Prince? Not saying I could afford the Pricness because even the price of the 770i's at the lengths I need are scary enough but I also don't want to be ignorant to the audible differences either.
What prompted me to ask this is the dealer mentioned incremental improvements as one moves from 330i to 550i to 770i and feels I wouldn't be disappointed, or to disappointed :) if in the end I could only swing the 330i's. He said to his ears he had to really concentrate to hear any difference between the 330i and 550i. Between the 330i to 770i the difference became more apparent when the middle model was skipped. Not a huge difference but it was no longer soemthing you had to struggle to hear. That's actually why he only has the 330 and 770 because the 550 would be a harder sell.
So if the improvement is no longer incremental going from 770i to Princess that's something I want to know about. |
Nope.. Let's hope there's someone who has them (SPX-800) chime in here for you. |
Thanks
Whoa, you weren't kidding that the Double Crown was thick.
I forgot about the SPX-800, but you probably don't have any of those either do you, just the Signtaure stuff? |
Hi,
Ruby Hill - center 5cm, end 4cm.
Ruby Double Crown - center 8cm, end 5cm.
*apprx. just measured using string :)
Ruby Mountain should be, or at least looks similar to Ruby DC - don't own one. |
Bvdiman, do you own any of the Ruby Hills or Ruby Mountains? If so what are the cable circumferences? I just measured my Kimber PK-10 Gold and it's appx. 5.5cm or 2 1/4". I was just curious how those Siltech's compare. |
Not sure design of new Triple Crown (availability delayed to early 2015), but as far as their IC, seems to be just a 'ground'/'float' switch built in-between. Looking forward to hearing one.
Re Jumper cable upgrade, perhaps it is my speakers which incorporate Duelund silver cast caps in crossovers that are particularly fussy/sensitive, ie. responding real well to that last few inches of wires.
Excerpt of its design/execution from the Manufacturer :
"06-21-11: Tidal
The Contriva Diacera TT was a limited series of only 5 pairs with the original Sunray drivers, pure silver parts (as for our Sunray / T1 models), a whole new internal wiring concept incl. a new terminal for passive and active bi-amping incl. our silver/goldplated softcopper binding posts from the Sunray.
Well, the drivers itself were more expensive then the drivers we build into our other speakers, but this is just a smaller part on the list, the major part and biggest difference is the massive silver PIO Cast parts we used for this speaker and the whole new x-overdesign which we adopted to the new drivers. And I am not talking about some standard silverfoil caps as for e.g. Mundorf Supreme parts, I am talking about high µF-values in massive silver, and these parts alone are more expensive then the big diamond tweeter in it.
The two aluminum rings in the front do have a positive influence to the reflections of the grills and just show that it is not just a "tuned Contriva Diacera". Each pair also needed much more hours to build it then a serial pair of Contriva Diacera. If one is one of the few persons who saw and heard one then one should know if this speaker is a different ballgame even to the serial speakers :-).
Tidal (Answers | This Thread)"
If you perceive there should be no discernible difference for yours good then you save some there. But yes, still better to use matching Jumpers as main SC though.. :) |
Thanks again guys
Bvdiman, I didn't realize that there are going to be triple crown speaker cables. I seen a couple pics of the triple interconnects posted at an audio show some time ago but that has been the last I have heard of them. Siltech hasn't added anything to their site. It will be interesting to find out how they compare because with that switch on them it appears as though they may be an active design??? If so I'm sure they will sound different but would it be more true to the source or a way of manipulating the sound which would be a no no in my opinion.
My speakers can be bi-wired but I have experimented with bi-amping and didn't notice much if any improvement even there because they can not be actively bi-amped. So I'm not sure how much going above the speaker cables in jumpers like you suggest would improve things seeing as the speakers have passive crossovers. Matching the jumpers to the cables would certainly be something I would consider though just to keep the look the same vs my speakers own jumpers. |
10-12-14: Brystonuser
Where would you say the biggest performance increase is, the Prince when compared to the 770L or the King when compared to the Prince? Prince when compared to the 770L; there is a big jump in sound moving up to the Royal Sig Series cables. Pretty much exactly as Bvd described, more sophisticated (refined) sound, tonality, richer harmonics (perhaps due to the extra silver & gold conductors?) and better bass. |
I've only listened/compared the 770L vs Prince briefly at my brother's. System is Alexia,
ARC Ref 150, Ref 5SE, CD 9. We heard quite a step up notably in overall refinement--
tonality as well dynamics. But not wanting to spend too much, he happily settled for the
770L.
In my set-up, I was using the KS Elation originally when testing the Prince. Prince tonality
was more spot-on for my taste. Then tested King, compared, and decided on it. Similar
tonality this time (Prince vs King), but more of everything.. More meat on the bone which
resulted in weightier presentation, hence foundation to music. I remember noticing
slightly richer harmonics and better saturation of timbres too.
When moving to Emperor Crown, the above experience was more/less repeated. And
damn.. whilst saving for Double Crown, they now come out with Triple! Think I'll stay put
for a bit and perhaps wait for E.DC to pop up at good price on the used market. Or get a
very very short run of TC if proven they are really good. At least for now I'm quite
contend using just the DC jumpers. ;)
*If your speakers are true bi-wireable and benefit from such, you could like me get a 1-2
grade higher for jumper wires.. Say if using Prince, get the King or even Emperor Crown
jumper-set to jump from Low to Mid-Hi section of your speaker's binding posts.. You'll
appreciate the improvements for much less money. |
I have another question about the Siltech's Bvdiman if you don' mind, Where would you say the biggest performance increase is, the Prince when compared to the 770L or the King when compared to the Prince? |
That's really good to hear that they can be ordered in lengths shorter than 2.0M. I do find it very sad that getting Furutech connectors is an extra charge on some models given the price of the cables. |
I think you should be able to specifically request Furutech Carbon for Ruby Hill II. (Option upcharge is 370 Euro from standard *Furutech Gold to Furutech FI50 plugs ~ difference I see for Ruby Mountain II model). *my mistake, it is Furutech Gold and not Wattgate as stated in previous post.
Shortest length for SC order is 1M. List for Prince is 4200 Euro, and King 6500 Euro ~ for the 1M/pair.
Pls re-confirm w/dealer as my referral is out of price list I had from couple of years ago. |
Thanks for the responses.
Since my setup is used for both home theater and music with the inevitable increased distance between gear and speakers due to having a center channel speaker and tv in the middle I have to accommodate an unavoidable lengthy cable setup. Going Royal Signature all around is out of the question due to the expense it would cost for the long interconnect run thus my interest in how the Classic's compare to the Signatures in gauge.
My L/R amps are monos and will be placed by the speakers. This actually works out well because the speaker cables are more money than the interconnects per meter so I can get really short SC runs if Siltech offer that. I've only ever come across prices for 2.0M as the shortest length though in price sheets which has me a bit concerned.
So I only need 1.0M to 1.25M for my L/R SC's. I will need like 4.0M though for my L/R IC. What I'm currently considering is possibly doing Prince SC and maybe 770L IC but at 4.0M I know 770's are going to be very pricey. I'm thinking of going with the Golden Ridge II with XLR for my AES/EBU cable. Power cables would either be SPX-800 or Ruby Hill II as I'm not sure I could afford/justify the price of the Ruby Mountain II considering I would be looking at adding multiple cables.
Looking at the Siltech website I see just a few models list Furutech as an available option. Do you know if that is set in stone? I would prefer to have Furutech connectors on all Royal Signature cables I would buy.
I haven't brought any home to test yet. I would like to be able to try both the dealers 330L and 770L. Since the IC's he has are RCA and I don't want to recalibrate my system just to test them as I run all XLR to my amps now so I think I'll try the 330i's and 770's he has between my source and pre as I run RCA there currently. He also has the HF but I don't yet have my digital music player so have nothing to test out the digital cable with. I won't be able to test any power cables or any Signature items as he doesn't stock them, all have to be special ordered. |
Hi Brystonuser! ;)
For SCs :
Prince > King - Increase girth diameter in middle, also thicker at termination ends.
King > Emperor Crown - Similar girth, slightly thicker stiffer w/tighter twists at ends.
Emperor Crown > Double Crown - Visually similar perhaps only a 'tad' thicker at ends.
For ICs :
Compass Lake > Empress Crown > Empress Double Crown - All look fairly similar. Difference being only the model designation/names at their respective bullet plugs.
PCs :
Ruby Hill II > Ruby Mountain II - Definite step up in girth size at middle, as well~ends.
Ruby Mountain II > Ruby Double Crown - Again, visually similar, Ruby DC comes standard with Furutech F50 plugs. While Ruby M uses Wattgate, w/upgrade option to factory retrofit (+surcharge) same top Furutech carbon ones.
Have you tried/decided on any yet? I bet it will complement your Brystons very nicely.. But still best to request from your dealer a full loom loaner first to decide if they are really for you. For these money, choose and buy right, try to avoid/minimize any possibility of co$tly buyer's remorse later on. Goodluck. |
I couldn't help you with clarifying the gauge of the cables you listed Bryston, suffice to say the new Siltech G7 cables are excellent cables imho & are built to last. Of the cables you mentioned, I use Siltech 330i rca's with my Oppo 103 dvd player and they have terrific resolution and tonal balance.
Of the cables you mentioned, the cables I would be happy to have in my system would be the Siltech King sc's & Ruby Mountain II pc's, though if it were me i'd spring for the Ruby Double Crown pc's. |
I was just talking with my dealer and he does not have any specifics about cable gauge and Siltech will not provide this information. He has tried and they have responded to my e-mails saying they won't disclose that information.
My dealer has both the 330L and 770L speaker cables and oddly enough they are the same thickness. He didn't have the 770L's on hand when I was by as they were lent out but he said the odd thing was even looking at the termination ends the cable thickness of the 2 models even appeared the same. So there is no difference in appearance but he said a definitive difference in sound.
He doesn't have any of the Royal Signature cables on hand but I'm now very curious if say the Prince and King for example are also indistinguishable from each other or is there an obvious difference in thickness between the two and does this continue as you move up the line? i.e. Emperor, Emperor Crown and Emperor Double Crown. Is anyone familiar with the Signature line that has seen these cables side by side? I would be curious about the Signature interconnects as well because he said like the speaker cables there is no physical difference between the 330i's and 770i's which I was able to take a look at and he does appear to be right. |
