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SELLERS encouraged to stop accepting Paypal!!

If you are selling anything on the internet from any site I encourage you to NOT ACCEPT PAYPAL AS A PAYMENT METHOD!

IT APPEARS THAT PAYPAL IS SO BACKED UP AND OVERWHELMED WITH DISPUTES AND CASES THAT THEY ARE NOT DECIDING THEM BASED ON MERIT, THEY ARE DECIDING THEM BASED ON NUMBERS. THEY PROBABLY KNOW THAT 85% - 90% OF BUYERS CLAIMS ARE LEGITIMATE SO THEY DISPOSITION THEM IN FAVOR OF THE BUYER JUST TO REMOVE THE CASEFILE FROM THEIR PIPELINE. THAT WAY THEY ARE ONLY PISSING OFF 10% TO 15% OF THEIR CUSTOMERS WHICH IS ACCEPTABLE IN ORDER TO MOVE THROUGH ALL THE CASES IN A TIMELY MANNER. THIS IS ONLY MY OBSERVATION AND OPINION, BUT IF YOU READ THE FACTS OF MY SITUATION BELOW YOU'LL AGREE!

Here are the facts of my case:
I listed an item (speaker cables)on Ebay that was described 100% accurately. Here is the content of my ad:
Here is the content of my ad:
"I have a 10-foot pair of essentially UNTERMINATED AudioQuest Audiotruth Midnight 3 Hyperlitz speaker cables. They spent their lives running from Yamaha M-1 monoblocks into B&W Matrix 801 Series 3's. They include a combination of spades and bananas BUT THE SPADES ARE BENT OR BROKEN AND THE BANANAS HAVE NOT BEEN PROPERLY TERMINATED. I have been using them by just tightening the bananas on the ends...seems to work fine BUT IF I WERE TO KEEP THEM I WOULD DEFINITELY TERMINATE THEM PROPERLY. In addition to the unterminated ends the writing on the cables is faded in places. Probably a decent cleaning would make them look great again."

Please note, the capitalized words are to highlight them for this post, they were not capitalized in the ad but this was my description.
Now, anybody reading this would know for absolute certain that 1) these are essentially unterminated, 2) the spades are bent and broken, 3) the bananas are not terminated, and 4) the seller is advising the buyer to terminate the properly because that is what he would do if he kept them.

So this Ebay buyer "buythemall2016" bid on this item several times to beat out 6 others to win the auction. I sent a congratulatory email with instructions for speedy delivery. I received back an email telling me to cancel his bid he does not want the item.
I contacted Ebay to let them know he was a non-payer on an auction he won. They obviously contacted him and told him he would get a "non-payer" status that would hut him on Ebay in the future. He paid me for the item and sent me an email saying simply "please ship fast". I knew he could be trouble.
I shipped immediately, he received the package and contacted me saying "the banana plugs are falling off and the spade plugs are bent and broken. Please advise."
Hmmm. I advised him how to use them the way I had been using them but suggested he terminate them properly per my description in the ad.

Not satisfied he called me a scammer and complained to Ebay asking for a refund. He also hit me with a negative feedback. I contacted Ebay who used common sense and good judgment to reverse the negative feedback and deny the buyers claim that the item he received was not as described. They decided in my favor.

A couple of days later I get a notice from PayPal that the buyer asked for a refund and permission to return the item since what he got was not as described in the ad. I was pissed that this guy was still trying to lie and dishonor his agreement to buy my item by being the winning bidder. I sent in all the same information to PayPal sure they would also find the item indeed was described 100% properly in the ad and they would rule in my favor. I wasn't even concerned at all.

About a week later I get an email that the buyer was given permission to return the item for a full refund.

I was enraged! I called PayPal, waited on hold for about an hour to talk to a manager who agreed with me and told me he was sending it to the "back office" to be reviewed further and reversed. He even released the hold on the funds since he was so certain it would be reversed and decided in my favor.

After not hearing anything for a couple of days I called back and waited on hold for 2 HOURS AND 28 MINUTES to talk to a manager before I heard someone pick up the line AND HANG UP ON ME!!

Now I cannot get anybody to call me back to discuss further. They are avoiding me entirely, and calling them is not an option since the shortest hold time is an hour!

Today I got the email saying they cannot change their decision and removed the money from my account and gave it back to the dishonorable "buyer". So I am out shipping both ways and the Ebay fee which I probably will never get back.

SO I ENCOURAGE ALL SELLERS WHO ARE ABOVE BOARD, HONEST AND LIST ITEMS WITH INTEGRITY TO STOP ACCEPTING PAYPAL AS A PAYMENT OPTION. YOU MAY SUFFER THE SAME SCENARIO I DID!

128x128Ag insider logo xs@2xkevinagurney
unreceivedogma's avatar
unreceivedogma
979 posts
 
Well, it’s not true that Paypal always sides with the buyer. I’m a buyer who is in a dispute with a seller, for whom the dispute has yet to turn out well. It’s been going on for 10 months now.

The seller used the words “works perfectly” in four places in his ad for a subwoofer, the ad was maybe 1000 words long, maybe longer, and buried towards the bottom in very small print is language to the effect - not explicitly, just to the effect - that a part was missing. I didn’t even see it until I was well into the dispute.

Without the part, there is no way, according to an engineer at the manufacturer, that you can state that the item “works perfectly”, all you can say is that when you plug it in, the amp lights up and the woofer diaphragm responds. The missing part is not off the shelf, and as it is no longer made, it needs to be fabricated from scratch.

My engineer says he could make it for $175 so I offered to accept it if the seller gave $175 back. The seller refused.

amazingly, both eBay and Paypal sided with the seller. Amazingly, eBay said that if I don’t like the sub, I can resell it on Ebay! The only ethical way to do that is to list the parts separately, sold as “for parts only” at a loss of $200 or more.

Fortunately I used Paypal Credit. So, I have yet to pay. I have told Paypal alternatively that I will either:

A - jump into a boiling vat of hydrochloric acid, or
B - walk barefoot across Siberia in the middle of the winter

before they see one penny from me for this purchase.

As the seller is rudely intransigent, and as Paypal has paid the seller, I my return the item to the CEO of Paypal as he is now the “owner”.

I since bought the same model sub at the same price. I saw it on Ebay first, but it was listed in another forum so he suggested to buy it there to avoid Ebay fees, I paid cash when I picked it up and there have been no issues.
ozzy's avatar
ozzy
7,461 posts
 
jafant,

Have you ever tried to collect from a bad check?  
Or what happens if you send a check or money order and the product never arrives. Good luck collecting.
No, for all the bad experiences that are listed about Paypal it is still the easiest way to complete a small purchase on Audiogon.

ozzy
kevinagurney's avatar
Ag insider logo xs@2x
kevinagurney OP
10 posts
 
mitch4t,
I agree with you....had I not gone on to explain and describe exactly what I meant by "essentially".  I mean they were terminated, and they certainly worked fine, just looked ugly.  Any confusion by a potential bidder would warrant a question?  No?  
I have purchased many items that upon first reading the description left me wondering and unsure about the item.  A quick email to the seller cleared it up immediately.
I now understand why people use the terminology "For Parts or Repair" even if the item works but needs attention.  Lesson Learned.

tsbarro.  Actually "lame" is incorrect.  It's lame for people to refuse to honor their commitment.  It's lame for people to abuse the system and cause other people inconvenience or loss.  It's lame when honest people get steamrolled by dishonest, deceitful people without integrity or good conscience.  I don't see any honor in this buyers behavior at all.  And by granting him a pass by calling me lame is misguided at best.
I do admit, my initial inclination when he paid me was to cancel the order entirely.   That was absolutely my bad.  Doing that would not have been "the high road", rather the road to cover my ass against a jerk.
You see, my intention was to simply have Ebay properly disposition him as a "non-payer".  I was already contacting the 2nd and 3rd bidders to see if they still wanted the item at their highest bid.  Since he deserved the label as a non-payer I only felt it fair that he wear that badge proudly as he bid in the future so other sellers would have the option to refuse his bid.  The fact that Ebay does not allow me to leave negative feedback regarding his behavior means everybody in the future is subject to his lack of character.  That does not seem right to me at all.
unreceivedogma's avatar
unreceivedogma
979 posts
 
Kevinagurney,

If the buyer asked to cancel within 12 hours - maybe even within 24 hours - of the sale, I would have granted his request, no questions asked, and moved on. He was signaling to you that he would be a problem buyer.

And the term “for parts or repair” is at the core of my dispute with the seller I’m having a problem with. The seller should have listed his subwoofer that way.
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