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Seeking Advise on New TT/Cart Purchase

Hello all. I’m looking for a new turntable for my vintage stereo system. I have been doing some research and note that many of the audiophiles who respond to such threads want to know what the current system specs are of the OP. So, this maybe a long thread but hope to get it right the 1st time. I believe the components of interest would be the following. CONTROL/ PRE AMP: Yamaha C-85, 1988 $765 ; POWER AMP: Yamaha M-65, 1988 $720 ; REAL TIME SPECTRUM ANALYZER/EQUALIZER: AudioControl C-101, 1988 $430 ; LOUD SPEAKERS: JBL Control Monitors Model 4312, 1990 2@ $840. These components have had the best of care & although I couldn’t guess the hours on them they have never really been cranked up volume wise due to living arrangements. Since my TT had been stolen in ’87 they have probably had a 100 hours of use. See below for specs.

  I’m looking at investing around $5K including cartridge and have familiarized myself with the following companies and models within that price range: Clearaudio, Rega, Music Hall, Project, Linn, VPI. I have also looked at several others not mentioned here. I have looked at some Cartridges but feel I need to decide on a TT first. I’m not in a big rush and would consider used (TT and/or Cart) but I really think it would have to be a guaranteed deal (possible demo, open box, etc.) from trusted known individual/dealer/certified rebuild to greatly lessen chance of fraud (however that could play out). Going the new route is simply safe but…. At this point in my searching I’m looking at the VPI Prime and something like the Zephyr MKIII Cart (read review using it) or Ortofon MC Quintet Black, but hope to avoid having to alter the stock tone arm because Cart requires a different “head shell”. Seems most recommended Carts for the Prime are also MC not MM. From my reading it also seems of benefit to go with the “Periphery Outer Ring Clamp” to this VPI Prime (saw this clamp available aftermarket cheaper).

  Lots of questions but think my system needs to be evaluated by some of you experts as to what a good match would be, maybe I’m overshooting, and won’t benefit from spending this much? I have over 300 albums in excellent shape to which I stopped buying after my Pioneer PL-71 direct drive with Stanton EEE was stolen in 1987. At that time to now I have continued my music collection but on CD’s, not duplicating my albums. I would like to start playing my collection and buying vinyl again.

  Besides the numerous number of TT’s & Cart selections out there since I last shopped this category I see other things. Most notable is that direct drive seems to be too expensive now and/or belt drive simply is the best option in my price range. I see in the reviews most TT’s are also coupled to a “Phono Stage”, another pricey item, but do I need this with my Yamaha Pre Amp? Then the cable questions, I have RCA jack gold plated monster cables through out my system will these suffice?
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YAMAHA C85 CONTROL/PRE AMP SPECS:

INPUT SENS/IMPEDANCE.
Phono MC                       100 uV/100 ohms, 1 k-ohms
          MM                     2.5 mV/100 ohms, 47 k-ohms
                                                              (220, 330 pF)
CD, VIDEO, TAPE, TUNER               150 mV/47 k-ohms

OUTPUT LEVEL/IMPEDANCE.
Pre Out                         1.5 V/47 ohms
Rec Out                         150 mV/600 ohms

THD (20 to 20,000 Hz)
Phono MC to Rec Out, 3 V                           0.001%
Phono MM to Rec Out, 3 V                           0.001%
CD, VIDEO, TAPE, TUNER, to Pre Out, 3 V   0.001%

FREQUENCY RESPONSE
CD, VIDEO, TAPE, TUNER                       20 to 20,000 Hz
(Tone By-Pass On)                                   +0 -0.2 dB

RIAA DEVIATION
Phono MC, MM                                     20 to 20,000 Hz +/- 0.2 dB
Phono MC, MM                                     10 to 100,000 Hz +/-0.5 dB

SIGNAL TO NOISE RATIO (IHF A Network)
Phono MC (500 uV, Input Shorted                                 91 dB
Phono MM (5.0 mV, Input Shorted                                 95 dB
CD, VIDEO, TAPE, TUNER (Input Shorted)                   106 dB

PARAMETRIC TONE CONTROL
Frequency Low                                   31.5 -- 800 Hz
                  High                                 800 -- 20 kHz
Level Low, High                                   +/- 12 dB
Bandwidth Low, High                         Q: 0.3 -- 3.0

POWER CONSUMPTION                   30 W

++++++++++++++

YAMAHA M-65 POWER AMP SPECS:

MINIMUM RMS OUTPUT POWER / CHANNEL
20 Hz -- 20 kHz 0.003% THD, 8 ohms                           170 W
                          0.007% THD, 6 ohms                             195 W
                          0.02% THD, 4 ohms                               230 W

AUTO CLASS A OPERATION ( 8 ohms )                             20 W

DYNAMIC HEADROOM ( IHF, 8 / 6 / 4 ohms )       1.76 dB/ 2.08 dB/ 2.18 dB

DYNAMIC POWER 1 kHz, 8/ 6/ 4/ 2 ohms         255/ 315/ 320/ 450 W

POWER BANDWIDTH ( 0.03% THD, Half rated power/8 ohms   10 Hz -- 60 kHz

TOTAL HARMONIC DISTORTION
MAIN IN to SP out, Half rated power/8 ohms         0.002%

IM DISTORTION RATIO ( 8 ohm)                           0.003%

DAMPING FACTOR ( Speaker A, 1 kHz, 8 ohms                     130

FREQUENCY RESPONSE ( 20 Hz -- 20 kHz)                 +0, --0.3 dB

INPUT SENS/IMPEDANCE                                         1.28 V/20 k(ohm)

SIGNAL to NOISE RATIO (IHF - A - Network)
(MAIN IN Shorted, 5.1 k(ohm) )

CHANNEL SEPARATION (Input shorted)
40 Hz/1 kHz/10 kHz                                         106 dB/89 dB/70 dB

POWER CONSUMPTION                               520 W

++++++++++++

AUDIOCONTROL C-101 EQUALIZER:

DISTORTION:   < 0.25% ( @ 1 volt from 20 Hz to 20 kHz)

FREQUENCY RESPONSE: From 3Hz to 100 kHz, +/- 0.75 dB

HUM & NOISE: Minus 90 dB re 1 volt, minus 96 dB re 2 volts, ( 10kHz bandwidth)

MAX INPUT:   7 volts

MAX OUTPUT:   7 volts

INPUT IMPEDANCE:   100 K(ohms)

OUTPUT IMPEDANCE:     150 ohms

CONTROL BANDWIDTH:   (,,Q"): 2.5

CONTROL CENTER POINTS: 32, 60, 120, 480, 960, 1920, 3840, 7680, 15.5 kH

CONTROL RANGE: +/- 12 - 15 dB

SUBSONIC FILTER:   18 dB/ octave Tchebychev alignment

SUBSONIC ROLLOFF RATE: -1 dB @ 25 Hz, -3 dB @ 20 Hz, -21 dB @ 10 Hz

THANKS, Robes-
128x128robes
5 responses Add your response
jperry
2,448 posts
 
If you are not in a hurry I suggest you look for a used SME 10 in the $3,000 - $3,500 price range. It looks like your Yamaha has an adequate phono stage, although I think you should consider upgrading to better separate phono stage over time.

I would pair the SME with a Shelter 501 or Benz Micro cartridge.

Another option that I think is a great value is the Pro-Ject Extension 12 with cartridge included.
robes's avatar
robes OP
23 posts
 
Thank you jperry for you reply-

  I will look at the SME10 (I may have looked at some but I can focus now). I really appreciate your recommendation on Cart's, especially when matched to a specific model. I will look at those cart's.

  Since I haven't looked yet, at those cart's, I don't know if they are MC or MM. I have this same post on other forums, FYI. I got 1 reply that yes, my pre-amp is fine but if I go to an MM cart I really need to upgrade to a phono stage because most MM's perform best at 100X amplification & my Yamaha has the standard 47K which robes me of total cart performance. No one has stated that the MC part of the pre-amp is inadequate in any way. Is this what your seeing? In other words, if I look at Mc carts alone I may be better off (that is not having to buy a phono stage)? 

 From what I've read, MM carts perform as well or better then some of the most expensive MC's out there for far less in price. But, the drawback being its "so hard to set up an MM". I see it only as an added expense then, just upgrade your phono stage, in my situation, is that correct?

Again, thanks for your input, it's appreciated-
Robes
yogiboy's avatar
yogiboy
5,661 posts
 
Check out SOTA!
http://www.sotaturntables.com/newprod.htm
And the Grado reference Sonata!
http://www.gradolabs.com/cartridges/reference-cartridges
snackeyp's avatar
snackeyp
455 posts
 
Clearaudio turntables are great.  They really pack a lot of cutting edge tech into their models, even their entry-level line.  
I've owned three of their turntables and the best bang for the buck was the Performance (SEP in my case, but currently called the Performance DC).  
jperry
2,448 posts
 
Robes,

I will try and address a few of your questions:

"my pre-amp is fine but if I go to an MM cart I really need to upgrade to a phono stage because most MM's perform best at 100X amplification & my Yamaha has the standard 47K which robes me of total cart performance. "

I don't really understand the comment above. 47K is the standard loading for a MM cartridge. You also have some option for changing the pf load for MM cartridges. With regard to MC you have fixed loading and to optimize the setup of a MC cartridge you may need to change the loading, although 100 ohms may be just fine. If you use a MC cartridge the output should be no less than .5 mv You should try your existing phono stage, it will work, but it will not perform as well as a dedicated and more expensive phono stage, so you may want to upgrade it later.

"MM carts perform as well or better then some of the most expensive MC's out there for far less in price. But, the drawback being its "so hard to set up an MM". "

MM cartridges can be very good performers, but IMO the best MC cartridges are better. MM cartridges are no more difficult to set up than MC cartridges. There is a giant thread on this topic in the Audiogon forums. It has not yet reached a conclusion in more ways than one.

"From my reading it also seems of benefit to go with the “Periphery Outer Ring Clamp” to this VPI Prime"

IMO this may result in slightly better playback, but is a major PITA and not something I would use.

Look at the link below under cartridge and turntable setup. There are a number of useful articles:

https://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/d.mpl?audio/faq.html

Good luck with your turntable search.

Best Regards,

Jim Perry
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