scientific double blinded cable test

@geoffkait 

In other words how do you explain cables that measure the exact same L, R, C sound different all things being equal?

Can you give an example of two cable assemblies with the same measured LCR numbers and vastly different sound?

nugat: I ran such a test at AES. For valid results, all participants must have demonstrated the ability to discern subtle variances reliably, or the results will devolve to 50/50, as it did at AES.

It is very difficult to control all the variables. Electronics and speakers vary as they warm up, getting people in the sweet spot, distractions, etc.

Even if everyone agreed that the two differ, it would be difficult to get a consensus of better.

IMO, the best test is in a system well known to the tester. Regardless of the DUT, the whole system should be re-plugged to establish a baseline and re-verified with well known source material. Only then introduce the new component. If there is a difference, it will readily be apparent. It's tougher with power amps to provide them with the same work so they are at the same thermal point.

Only then should the tester say "BananaRama is really good in my system. Check it out and see what it's like in yours." 

garagesale:

To expand on the question? Has there ever been measurable speaker differences with different cables? ETC? Frequency response? Impedance? Has an amplifier ever displayed a different level of distortion using exotic power cables? As in does an amp begin 1% distortion at 100 watts with a stock power cable but managed 105 watts with an upgraded one?

This image shows 3 speaker cables all driving the same speaker.
Cables are Rega Duet, Bob Carver's Music Link and a protoptype.
http://www.ielogical.com/Audio/TriWireZ.jpg

Amps definitely show different response into loads with different wires. Some combinations will make a less than bulletproof amp shutdown or burn up.

It is possible that an amp may put out more level into a specific speaker / cable combination, but the difference between 100 and 105 is only 0.21db and would likely only affect very short peaks.

brianmoriarty:

Such a test would need to be performed in an ordinary room  with speakers placed in less than ideal positions as the average listener would have things.  Testing high-grade cables and low-grade cables of equal electrical properties,  Like 2 coathanger’s stretched out compared with whatever high-end cable Of the same conductance.

This was essentially the test I ran at AES in the 80's. It is difficult to get exactly the same LCR parameters for different construction. We used 12ga THNN 19 strand and a Monster Pro, also 12ga. Some who took repeated tests could tell better than 80%. Many who took the test only once got results far above guessing and some did worse than guessing. When results were tabulated, it was pretty well evenly split. Many of those who did poorly were firmly in the 'canbenodifference' camp. Unfortunately, we did not collect information as to whether the participants could felt they could reliably determine differences or not. Just as some are color blind or tone deaf, some are not able to hear subtle differences in phase and level.

Quincy Jones once said that we mix in the studio making 0.1db changes for a great many who have trouble hearing 10db. Truer words were never spoken.

@geoffkait
I do wish you would read and comprehend before blasting

I doubt anyone could hear a significant difference between those two particular cables.

Approximately HALF the participants COULD tell the difference better than guessing. How else would we have come up with an even split?

I assume you were trying to portray Monster as a sort of high end cable.

We were not trying to portray anything. We were conducting an open test where anyone could participate and indicate whether they could repeatedly identify the cable as A or B. Any detected difference between the two cables was not captured as it was not relevant.

I had some Monster Cable circa 1983 and frankly, it sucked.

As I’ve mentioned several times, cable interacts with the amplifier and speakers. There are 3 possibilities relative to the existing cable: Better - No Change - Worse. While the cable maybe demonstrably worse electrically, it may be preferred by listeners in that system at that time.

In any case, as I’ve opined on more than a few occasions, a single test

As I said, "Some who took repeated tests could tell better than 80%." We structured the test so some would take it many times and each test series was different. Statistically, getting it right better than 80% that is way beyond what could be achieved by guessing.

means nothing when the results are inconclusive or negative.

There are multiple possible conclusions: Cables make no audible difference - Cables make an audible difference - The test was so poorly run with such bad equipment that it is impossible to tell.

There are many factors that biased against detecting differences: poor seating, distractions, poor room.

In other words you cannot draw any generalizations or conclusions.

Given that half the participants could reliably tell in adverse conditions, my takeaway was that people could distinguish differences... which I’ve maintained and reliably detected for more than 40 years.

And things have changed a little bit since the 80s, you betcha.

Yeah... lots of internet experts without one iota of technical expertise