Sarcher, I believe human hearing would be most sensitive at between 500 and 2000 Hz (grossly speaking), and that's why we have 1kHz test tones and why crosstalk, distortion, etc, are usually measured at that frequency. Does the optimal electronic setting for azimuth vary much between 500 and 2K? I do not know. I would guess not. |
Is the Talea still a state secret? Its existence has been publicly disclosed. We know who you lucky owners are, so 'fess up.
Doug, I would be interested to know which of the more popular cartridges put a lot of energy into the tonearm and which ones don't, in your experience. I think you may have come upon a useful way to predict felicitous tonearm/cartridge matches, apart from the well known ones related to effective mass of the tonearm and compliance of the cartridge. |
Dear Rccc, I too asked Doug about his ideas on cartridges that put a lot of energy into the tonearm, and cartridges that don't. It makes a lot of sense that cartridges could differ in this way, due to the huge differences in construction of one vs another. But I would like to know what Doug knows about specific cartridges.
As to the second part of your question, that is not so hypothetical. The tonearm+cartridge is treated as a single entity, and the resonant frequency can be both estimated and accurately determined by a variety of methods. John Ellison over on VA invented a neat way to determine the actual resonant frequency of the tonearm+cartridge, by simply dropping the needle onto a disc whilst recording the sine wave that is thus generated using a computer program. By observing and measuring the decay of the sine wave, one can calculate resonance. I can't recall further details, but it is a very clever idea. You can probably find it on VA by doing a search. |
Thanks, Doug. It's clear from your treatise that one should not be bothered with vinyl. Like the bumble-bee, it cannot possibly "fly". (Kidding, of course.)
I thought you were going to tell us that Paul had picked out the sound of a strain gauge. To distinguish between MM and MI, now that is remarkable. I sometimes tell myself that MIs do sound "different", now that I have been playing with several of them. |
While we're at it, is the Schroeder Reference still in production? I thought I read several months ago that Frank Schroeder had ceased to produce tonearms, except to fill outstanding orders, which was good news to a buddy of mine who has had a Reference on order for eons. The rest of the "story" was that, other than filling existing orders for the Reference, etc, Mr. Schroeder would in future only be supervising production of the tonearm that goes with the Artemis turntable. Can any dealers comment?
JWeiss makes a good point en passant: are cartridges that put a lot of energy into a tonearm by definition low compliance types as well? It would make some sense that compliance is but one determinant. |
With all due respect, Doug, forming an hypothesis about the sound of a particular type of cartridge and "confirming" it with a sample of N=1 is not good "science", nor are the other examples you give. But I do agree that lack of a scientific approach is endemic in these discussions. The problem always is that, if we agree that we each have different and unique test instruments (our ears and brains), all of which are equally valid as adjudicators, then "science" as we would like it to be applied goes right out the window.
It's interesting that you should bring up the question of scientific method, because I was thinking about the same thing last night. Here's an experiment you and others who set azimuth by ear can do, and the results would be interesting:
Set azimuth be ear, and THEN use a Fozgometer or Feikert or Wally tool to determine what amount of crosstalk and/or phase error at 1kHz is preferred by the senses. (I choose 1kHz, because most test LPs provide bands at that frequency for setting azimuth.) Do this several times with different cartridges and tonearms, and see whether there is a trend, using one person as judge. Do it again with a second experienced observer who has been blinded to the preferences of the first. (I guess this belongs on the Foz thread.) |
Dear Joel et al, By choosing 1kHz in my little proposal, I did not mean to take the position that 1kHz is the sine qua non for setting azimuth. The goal of my proposed experiment would simply be to compare the outcome when a really good ear (like Doug's or Paul's or Tbg's) sets azimuth according to his/her preference vs when azimuth is set by a typical audiophile conventional electronic method ((based usually on a 1kHz test tone). I have no preconceived notions (i.e., no hypothesis). It's actually dangerous to design an experiment to prove an hypothesis. It's better to acquire some good data and then make an hypothesis centered on the data. Further experiments then test the strength of that hypothesis. If you can develop a way to use a set of frequencies to set azimuth electronically, rather than just a single frequency, that would be a useful improvement on the electronic method, IMO. |
Dear Doug, I am thinking that I sounded snotty when I was preaching about scientific method. I apologize. |
Petng,
I too would love to know more about the Kuzma top pivoted tonearms and how it fits in with Triplanar, Graham, Talea, Schroeder, Reed, SME. I can't even find a good photo of either. The 4-point is the top of the pivoted line, is it not? |
You can find reports on the thread about the RMAF 2010. I was sitting in the back row, or rather, standing. All seats in front of me were occupied, and there were people also standing along both sides of the small-ish room. Speakers were Daedalus. Amps were Atma-sphere M60s. It was impossible, really, to compare the two tonearms (Schroeder Ref vs Talea), because two different phono stages AND two different cartridges were used. The Schroeder was playing into a new Artemis LCR phono stage and thence into the linestage of an Atma-sphere MP1. The Talea was playing into the Atma-sphere phono section. I believe that a Dynavector DV1S was riding in the Talea, and that a Sussuro (by SoundSmith) was riding in the Schroeder, but I could be wrong about the Talea. From where I sat, I very slightly preferred the Schroeder circuit (cartridge, tonearm, phono stage) because it was a bit more dynamic and "wet", which suits my own taste. OTOH, I could not fault the Talea in any way, and it certainly is a thing of beauty and precision. I did not care for any of the musical selections (which tended to the esoteric), so that did not help. Eventually, that is what drove me out of the room. Others who were in a better position to hear nuances either agreed or disagreed with my assessment, but as I implied above, I think it was more a comparison of cartridges and phono stages than of tonearms. Anyway, it was fun to see so much vinyl power in one room (Lederman, Schroeder, Durand, Mackris, etc, etc), all nice guys. |
