What is the difference in the new version?
I am trying to have some regular cryo'd to see if there is a marked improvement in it,but it has not returned as yet.I think at the end of nest week it will be here.
In the process of having my speaker crossover's reworked,new Binding Post and using the OTA for internal speaker wiring.The X\Oer's will be outboard also.The Binding post will give me the capability of Bi\Verticle Amping. |
Slawney, I was thinking about the new thread on the 47 labs new cables. But, isn't it too early for that? Shouldn't we wait for some time until the others get chance to listen to these cables?
Regards,
Ivo |
I agree with Brulee and Ivo on the sonic superiority of the 47 Labs plug over the Eichmann. In the end, I use the Eichmann on only one set of IC cables, and that is located on the TV!
I do not know if it has been announced already on this thread, but 47 Labs has recently started shipping a new speaker cable, and has announced new IC and digital cables, whose sonic superiority over OTA has already been documented by at least one contributor here. I think we should start a new thread on these new cables, since they have a new construction, and probably new set-up requirements. I personally do not have these new cables yet (I still run OTA), but hope to have them soon, otherwise I would start the thread myself. You can see a picture of the new speaker cable on either the sakurasystems or the konusaudio web-sites. |
I have to agree given that is the opinion of other's also.The Plasic gives the most direct contact to the post.
OTOH,I was forced to use a connector for my CDP.For some reason I could not get them to work so I tried Eichmanns whch seem to work fine.
I will be doing some test using Cryo treated OTA .That shall be very intresting.I will have enough to run Treated with and without Eich Plugs and using the Plastic Connectors. |
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Anyone who wants the best from the OTA, please use the supplied RCAs. This is part of the magic and design of this plug. Why go through a pin, solder when you can go wire to connector. Use as intended or you will never know what this wire is capable of. |
Cryo treated Cables have not returned as yet,but I did get to use the Eichmanns in place of the Plastic Plugs and that works fine.
Would have liked to have gotten the newer Silver Plugs ,but they were not available yet.Cost being another factor,they were something like 3x the price of regular ones.
Satisfied so far ,but I did notice the cable can be all over the place in the Freq. spectrum with the Mids falling out as has been mentioned.Waiting on a better Digital Cable also.
Happy Listening! |
Hi everyone,
I'm new to this thread. I am using OTA for speaker wire and interconnect for my Flatfish/Shigaraki dac, Fi super X amp and Avantgarde speakers. I made a special set of speaker wires that is a long single run to the midrange horn and a jumper to the tweeter and another from the midrange to the bass boxes. The wire is superb. I replaced JPS in my system and other wires such as Alpha Core silver. I've made a special power cord out of .65mm OTA with a single male plug and 2 sets of power wires and 2 IEC's[like a bi wire set] for the power supplies of my Flatfish and Dac. This is also a great tweak. I will be making another power cord for the amp and a Y preamp soon. I'll keep you all posted.
Happy Holidays. |
I had one side working on the CDP ,but I tried myself several times to get it to work correctly .No go!
I just put Eichmann Connectors on and they work great.Sometimes my IC to my Amp goes also.I imagine it's the conntect area of the wire itself.You can try twisting the Plastic connectors to see if they get the contact.
Just get some Eichman Silver Bullets and some Cardas Solder or 4% Silver Solder and make up an IC.I made up 2 last night .One I am sending off to be Cryo'd to do a test to see if there are positive results.
BTW I did not get the Silver Bullets,I wish I had.I got the Goldplated standard types.Either way they are probably the best on the market.
Good luck! |
I can't get my CDP to work at all either using these RCA's. Any tips? I tried reinserting, re-terminating. . . nothing. .at all.
B |
I am going to send a few short runs off to have Cryo treatment done to see what effect it might have on it.
(I will put Eichmanns on 2 pairs of exact lenghts .One will be cryo'd and the other will remain untreated to be inserted between my DAC to Pre-Amp.
Of what I have read there shall be a difference in sound,but the Q will be will that effect be positive or negative. |
I asked Audio Eng. what type of Spades he would use on this stuff?His advice seeing that it was so thin was to wrap it around the WBT Posts I have to both the Amp & Speaker's(3in.).He was correct!
Everything opened up after that.
Great advice.I was just using 1 small strand before that.I did not think about it. |
There is a new article that mentions OTA Cable that should be of intrest to people here.I could not copy it so take a look! |
I have been informed that there is a way of Braiding OTA in order to get better performance and to use it as an Digital IC.
Does anyone have a copy of the way to Braid it they could send to me or what are your experiences with Braiding it?
I will also read past post on the subject.
TIA |
Do not know why it is I can get these connectors to work sometimes and then other times I cannot.It's like a hit or moss thing.I tried making a few sets with the example plugs as my guide.At one point I had one channel going for the CDP then I could not get them to work .
Anyways I wrote to a dealer to order some Eichmann's.I am sure they will provide the right contact.I do think the Plastic Connectors are kinda chezzey!I also think what they are asking for them is outrageous,but I did not get the kit new and I got it for below 1/2 price so I'm not gonna bitch about it.The guy that sold the kit to me was almost ready to pay 47labs a visit it seemed.He was glad to get rid of it.
I am waiting for a response back from the supplier.Thx! |
Abex: I can't honestly say whether there's a difference because I've never used the 47 Labs RCA's. But if you've been using any normal RCA terminated IC and they've been working, it may simply be, as Ken Lyon stated above, a compatability issue between the 47 Lab RCA's and the female RCA's on your CD player. For what it's worth, I sold a set of fairly expensive ic's to use the Bullet Plug terminated 47 Labs. I also used a cheaper RCA on the 47 Labs, and the Bullet Plugs are audibly superior. |
IS there a real noticable difference when using them and should that solve my CDP connector problem?
I will order a set to work with if I can find the vendor's addy again.I had saved it in my favorites.
I also am experimenting with PC's.Just generic stuff like Coleman,Carol, and American Cable to see weather there would be a difference in sound with my system.
Thanks for the tip I had forgot all about them. |
Abex: If you have enough of the 47 Labs cable, terminate them with Eichmann Bullet Plugs-you'll be out about $30 for the Eichmann RCA's, and the combination has been quite good for me. |
I recieved these cables from a person who had a 5w/ch. amp with Horn speaker's.He preferred DIY Ratshack Cables.I think that his low output from the amp might have been the reason why his system did not take to the Cable.
The cable works great in my system!Everything that i tried today sounded much better.I cannot see how people can say they cannot hear a difference in cables.It's baffleing to me. Maybe they just do not have sensitive equiptment.
I used a run for my Sub which at first did it not work.I the looked at the cable and found that they were not ringed through the small holes .After that I was able to use the cable on the sub.I then inspected the lines I used for the CDP ,but they still would not work.
If anyone knows of cables\IC's that I can use for my CDP that will not cost alot I would appreciate it.I am using a Phillips CDP and an ART DIO DAC that will be modified.
I guess I will try the Alph Core Digital IC that someone suggested unless it will not work with the ART DAC,The IC I need will go between the Ouputs on the DAC to the pre-amp.
TIA for the help! |
I have a Phillips CD-80 CDP and was wondering what IC I could use if I cannot get the OTA cable to work with it?
It still will not send the signal through.I also have an ART DAC unmodified that I am using and have to upgrade the Digital IC.Any suggestions are helpful.
Right now I am using AQ Rudy and Canare COAX as my digital IC.
TIA |
What are you using for a transport & DAC?
What other's have you tried?
I was leaning towards Mapleshade Double Helix Plus,but I am trying to narrow the feild down and that Digital IC is 1/2 the price.
Thx |
I agree with Dekay on his last statement. I am using Alpha Core silver micropurls as digital cables. And, these are the best digital cables I've heard so far. |
Abex,
Regarding your CDP, some female RCA's only have one or 2 contacts for the male RCA's pin.Try rotating and reinserting the OTA connector in a few different orientations just to make sure that isn't the problem.
Ken |
Excellent cable!I just hooked it up and ran a few of my test recordings and it works just fine for me.
I only ran into 1 snag which I have not figured out yet and that is I could not get my CDP to work using the OTA.Will have to try something else to see why that is.
The best thing I can say is that the innerdetails shine on through at low vols. which is something I have been waiting for in a cable.The recording I use has chimes at the beginning and it always bugged me that I would have to turn the Vol. up in order to hear them.Not the case now.
I have heard that OTA a similar in design to Kimber Select and I do not have any ,but I can believe it.Vocals ,soundstage and Bass are phenomenal
Another issue that was critical was the Capacitance of the Cable.I am using a Passive Preamp.Out of the batch of cables I have and knowing that the Canare is around 20pfd this cable is alot better.
Thanks again for this thread as I just happend to get this cable due to another person having synergy issues using a SET amp with highly efficient speakers.I do not know why ,but his lost and my gain I guess! |
Abex:
Where did you "get lucky"? I gotta get some of this stuff. I am not very excited about using it as an interconnect unless I can solder it to my RCA jacks. I am not keen on using Delrin, or any plastic in my system at all. Just as the EnjoyTheMusic interview says, I am in the camp that says we can't kill resonance. My entire system is built around this idea, and I have nothing in my system that dampens at all. I am not about to ADD plastic. Plastic will make vibration bounce back into the component and thereby making it harder for the vibration to drain properly.
Anyway, I do want to try some. What's the best place to get it?
Thx!
B |
It is an intresting read though.I will try somethimg else.I tend to agree with the 75ohm theory becuase I am at present using CANARE 75ohm cable and it's just ok ,but not as revealing as I know it could be.
I have been on a cable quest of late and have a variety of cables coming and on hand so I will be able to give a fair eval of how my system will jive with the OTA's,but if It only works well in my system as speaker cable I will be happy.If it works well as a replacement of all cables excluding the Digital cable I will be overjoyed!
Synergy is a big issue with me after getting out of the reciever stage in my life many moons ago and becoming a more critical listener.
Thanks for the reply! |
Abex:
I ended up with a very nice OTA digital cable (it slightly bested my Mapleshade Double Helix anyway - even less HF smearing which is what Mapleshade is all about).
The center (+) lead was 30" long and the outer (-) lead was 60" long. The longer lead was looped around the shorter lead by the means of 5-7 half knots (approx. 1.5"- 2" in diameter).
More and smaller loops close in the sound (though they further define imaging) while fewer and larger loops open up the sound while making imaging less precise. The trick is to balance this out to your liking (the cord is adjustable in the way).
Per the originator of this concept (Richard @ Vantage Audio in the UK), this will work best with total lengths no shorter than 90" (the one that I used) and no longer than 120" (I did not have enough cable left to try this length).
The concept is loosely based on a design that Vantage either uses, or has used, in the past, though their formula (as it was described to me) is far more complex/precise than the cable that I made.
If you do not feel like going to all this trouble, just make the (+) lead 42 " and the (-) lead 48" and separate the cables along the run by approx. 2". This is not as good as the looped design, but it betters equal length runs as the sound is more articulate and open.
Short versions (under 42") did not sound good with my DAC's (Bel Canto 1.0 & 1.1), but some people seem to like them and this may vary with the equipment used. I do use 8" OTA IC's from preamp to phono preamp with super results, but these are analog cables running to dual/mono phono sections with but 34 dB of gain.
I also do not hold to the concept that 75 ohm coaxial designs are the best digital cables as these cables have been my least favorite so far. |
I got real lucky and got the Kit for less than 1/2 price.With the kinda recommendations I have read and people have written to me I am jazzed!
I have a pair of solid core Tara Labs,so I will have a slight comparative basis to go by.
Would like to know what other's experience has been using this stuff as a Digital IC or if you can use it in that capacity?I will look through the post to see if anyone has mentioned it. |
Hi All,
Just an update on the results of cryogenically treating the OTA wire.
First of all, treating them means they need to be broken in again. Once I got the inteconnects and speaker wires installed, I thought "where the heck is the bass". I left the system playing at a low level for a couple of days and the bass came back. The may have also had something to do with the Gaincard and Phonocube being unpowered for a couple of weeks - I do think they need some time to come back to their former glory.
The best news is that it didn't do anything bad - which was a concern at first. It defintely makes a difference with interconects and speaker cables - a bit clearer and a little more 3 dimensional. With power cables, I can tell no difference.
That's it. I'd recommend it. Maybe someone will try doing an entire gaincard.
Austin |
Bullet Plugs -vs- OTA RCA.
DISADVANTAGES OF BULLETS: they will require soldering, whereas OTA RCAs do not. Thus the Bullets will introduce solder- and conductor-related impurities in the signal.
The Bullets can be kind of tight on certain RCAs.
The Bullet plug shells will need to be filled with some material to insure that the OTA will not wobble too much in the shell. (I used cotton)
ADVANTAGES OF BULLETS: they are cheaper than the OTA RCAs. The can be attached and removed from RCA plugs without risk of a break in the tip of the OTA wire. Sometimes the OTA wire breaks when put on and taken off a tight RCA connection.
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Well I Guess that settles that!My Cabling system will be the OTA Kit!
Thanks for the help!If you can add any advice please do!
Oh for the Passive I would need to know what the Capacitance of the Cable is?
Thanks again! |
Hi Larry/Abex: The only thing to research as far as your system goes, IMO, is the passive preamp to amp run. I have not tried the OTA with a passive.
The OTA cable is not bright/thin sounding and should be fine with metal tweeters.
I have no experience with the Bullet RCA's, however can say that the 47 Labs RCA's are definately a part of their clear sound. If purchasing a complete kit, I would just use the supplied RCA's and then experiement with the Bullet's as desired. |
I use the Eichmann Bullet Plugs terminating 47 Labs for IC's. I have never used the standard 47 labs connectors, but can say the Eichmann's are far superior to another set of RCA's which I used first to figure out whether I wanted to stay with the 47 Labs. For what it's worth, I sold a set of Silver Audio Silver Bullet 6.0's to keep the 47 Labs/Eichmann combo as I felt it was superior in pretty much every way. This is a very good combo. |
I am thinking of doing an overhaul of the cabling in my system and would like to know if 47Labs OTA Cabling system might be right for my system?
First the sytem I will be re-wiring:
Modified B&K ST-202 (Star Grounding and connector pts.)
NEAR-M15 & M50 Speaker's(Crossover-Driver Pts)
FT Audio LW-1 Passive Pre-Amp(all pts. internally)
CDP=Phillips CD-60 with an ART DIO (IC's to LW-1)
All IC's and Spkr Cabling will be using the OTA system Cable.
Secondly I would like to use the Eichmann Connectors,if I can find them?If anyone has a website that sell them and how much they cost please let me know?
Thirdly,has anyone tried these connectors with the OTA Cable?
Lastly,is there anyone using this Cable with Metal Driver's?
TIA,ABEX |
Austin: Where did you obtain the thicker OTA cable? Also, any idea what gauge it is (the regular is approx. 26 gauge)? I had thought about trying it as hookup wire on my Bottlehead gear. |
Just an update here - still using the OTC cables and thicker ones for power. I just sent all the cables off to be cryogenically frozen for a couple of days - I'll report back on the results!
Also, I must say I really mis the cable now that it's gone... even in my 2nd system where I was just using a power cord, I can tell a major difference when I went back to the stock cord - dull, homogenized trebble, etc.
Also, one thing I did recently was use some 400 grade sand paper to "polish" the ends of the wires - including the power cord plug. The exposed copper will tarnish, and it made a nice difference...
Have fun. |
I am still using OTA throughout the system. The only exception is with the power cables. I went back from OTA PCs to NBS Statement PCs. But I have not yet tried the larger .65 mm OTA in this application.
Regarding using other cables with OTA. I could only really bear using the NBS PCs with OTA, whereas the NBS ICs and speaker cables, when added, colored things in the NBS direction (darker, slower, more rounded) very quickly, so that the OTA effect was lost altogether.
Since I last posted, I replaced the wire inside my speakers (a larger-gauge solid-core copper wire from Britain) with OTA, and separated the crossovers from the speaker cabinet. The results were entirely positive. I threw out the old cable without a second thought. I highly recommend wiring the insides of the speaker with OTA if you decide to use it as a speaker cable. If you leave the manufacturer's interior cable inside the speaker, the full OTA effect will not be achieved.
I have also used OTA as a DC hook-up wire. I even direct-wired parts of my amps and crossovers with it, which is a real challenge, because of the small diameter. The results were well worth the hassle.
Recently I was talking to a dealer here in Europe about his experiences with other solid-core copper cables (DNM, Audio Note, etc.), and he said that whenever he used such a cable, the sound just seemed to explode with life from the speakers. While he was saying this, he made a gesture with his hands like a supernova. I liked the metaphor. I will loan him some OTA soon for his store set-up. |
Seriously considering getting this Kit if the facts are still valid to what people are saying about this Cable(Best Cable for under $1K).
If you consider getting Kimber Silverstreak IC's then adding a good set of Speaker Cables and that cost is more than the Kit then it is a real steal!
I am wondering weather the Kit is good for equiptment other than the Humpty Dumpty setup or not.
What has the results been in other systems? Does it blend just as well?
TIA |
Outlier: Still using the OTA throughout the system except for SME IC's on a recently added TT. I am out of OTA cable, otherwise I would change them out as I did on the previous deck.
I may try some DIY 30 gauge solid core silver cables instead, an interesting design by a Japanese phile (on the TT).
Have not talked to Mark in a long time (hope he responds as he always had the energy to experiement a great deal more than most of us).
Sound wise I really don't think about changing cable anymore (just placing a decent, though traditional, cable in the signal path sounds way strange after running OTA for the past year, or so). |
still a happy camper here-using OTA throughout from phono stage & cd transport to dac to pre to amp to crossovers to loudspeakers.
best,
ken
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I was wondering whether everyone on this thread still using the OTA cables, or has anyone moved to what they think is a better cable (I imagine that some esoteric cables like Kharma and Siltech G5 are better, but I'm particularly interested in sub-$1,000 cables folks find better). I'm curious to see if the OTA is still king of the hill for folks here. I've been using OTA for about 8 months now, but am feeling the itch to try something else. |
Ivo, Vacations are nice,but we've got work to do here man.Just kidding ,hope it was great.
I talked to an electrician friend about running the 0.65 as an AC line and his concern was that the circuit breaker wouldn't trip in time if the wire was to overheat and lose it's insulation. A little scary.Here's a diabolical little notion (big grin now).I'm thinking a glass tube would be appropiate.That way I could see it,you know ,keep an eye on it. With the lights down low I could see when the wire starts to glow;then I would shut my rig down just before the insulation drips off.Hey... I think I might just have something here....... :) anyhow, enjoy them tunes |
Dave, I'm sorry I didn't reply on your post. I was on vacation last week, no internet, no hi fi. No, I didn't try to run 0.65 OTA from the wall outlet to the circuit box. I just made a dedicated line for my hi fi wall outlet with no changing the wires: my electrician just rearranged the circuit box. The improvement was obvious from the first moment. I already mentioned that, when I tried 0.65 OTA as a power cord, I noticed a certain softening in the bass region. Now, with the dedicated AC line, the softening just gone.
I'm still thinking of using the OTA as a power cord between the box and the wall outlet. I have some concerns: the box is very far from the wall outlet - more than 12 meters so I need 24 meters of OTA. Than, I don't know whether to put OTA in a kind of a tube or to leave it free, but in that case I don't know how to fix it on its way to the AC wall outlet. Practical problems. And we all know that OTA is so sensitive on twisting or tightening.
Regards,
Ivo
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I should have mentioned that my current gear (no pun intended) is 25 watt Gaincard and Wadia cdp,a fairly low current draw I would think. |
Ivo,
I'm in the process of putting together some 0.65 power cords and am thinking of running the 0.65 from the wall outlet to the breaker box like you mentioned in your post.Have you tried it yet? I'm a little nervous about running such a small gauge wire to the box.I really can't see the difference in using it as a power cord and running the 0.65 from the AC outlet to the box,as long as the AC outlet is left in the chain as a means of disconnecting the equipment.Now lets see, where are those oven mits and that fire extinguisher....
I am also considering the JPS labs in wall AC wire; but would really like to stay with the Storatos.I'd be interested to hear how you're coming with your rig.
Any words from the wise on this? |
Slawney: You're welcome. Yes, 0.65 OTA that is now in my system was used in 47/Konus room in Frankfurt.
I was listening to 0.4 OTA power cords for almost a year so all of my comparisons are between 0.65 and 0.4 power cords.
The electricity in my house is bad, very bad. My house is the LAST ONE from the transformer station so everybody takes the AC power before it comes to my Humpty/Dumpty supplies. I'm going to make dedicated line from the circuit board in the near future. Maybe I'll get something with that. I was thinking to use 0.65 OTA as a power cable from the circuit board to the wall AC outlet. |
Ivo: thanks for your post on the 0.65mm OTA power cords. This must be the ones 47/Konus used in Frankfurt, right? You formerly used Electrocompaniert, Transparent, and OTA 0.4mm power cables in the past. Are the comparative statements in your 5-17-02 post only a comparison of 0.4 OTA and 0.65 OTA power cables? Also, how good are your house mains?
Has anyone used multiple OTA runs on the "live" and "neutral" sides of their power cables and woven them together, adding resonance control material "between" and "around" the multiple runs in the process? |
I second Ivo's comments. I just tried the cable for the first time yesturday too. Besides smoother trebble and more bass, there is more of a 3 dimensional quality now. I had been considering a sub, but I think I may be just happy enough now! |
I've just got the 0,6 OTA power cords for a trial. The cables were well burned-in: they spent some time in a 47 labs system. The IEC connectors are made of a very light plastic, from Japan. The cables are longer than usual: over 3m. These power cords were designed for 4 power supplies/components: 1 AC plug and 4 IEC connectors. My 47 labs setup consists of 2 power supplies so 2 wires in this setup are excessive. I think it will degrade a little bit the effect of these cords. After only 2-3 hours the sound stabilized so I started to listen.
The first impressions are very good, I would say excellent. The sound opened up beautifully with more air in the treble region. Extension is better, both in the bass, which is now fuller and has more weight, and in the treble that sounds cleaner and smoother, with no grain at all. The soundstage is now bigger (positively, the proportions are just as they should be) spreading in all directions with more space between instruments and voices.
Also, the dynamic is improved. Everything breathes more easily with a lot of details. Voices sound smoother and more natural.
The 0,6 OTA wire as a power cord brings new improvement in my 47/essence setup. It brought power and dynamic without sacrificing anything from the 0,4 wire’s virtues. In fact, the 0,6 OTA surpasses thinner wire in every respect.
One thing concerning the bass: it's certainly fuller and deeper but I notice a hint of softening in the mid-bass region. Is it because of the 2 excessive IEC plugs that just «steal» some AC power? I don't know, but I'll definitely get some 0,6 OTAs (for PCs) for myself.
Ivo |
I have had very good results using the standard OTA as a power cable for my CD/DVD player. As the player is internally grounded (and obviously is not very current hungry) it was simply a matter of terminating the wire, live and neutral, with a male plug (used a Hubbell 5266C if I remember the part # correctly) and an iec (used a Schurter). I also ran the OTA wire through 1/8" heat shrink (without shrinking it down) just to give me some added peace of mind, not that I deserve it. Just made me feel a bit better, but I'm sure many out there will tell me I'm crazy for doing this. I'd never have the nerve to attach it to anything that needed to be grounded or was very current hungry, but in this application it has been fabulous, improving upon a $350 retail power cord, and allowing me to shift that cord onto another piece of equipment with a decent, but inferior cord. |
