Mulveling, let me ask you this. Where to you draw the line for what you won’t have any part of in any way?. I don’t feel it’s "getting on a high horse" to draw the line at helping finance a Russian economy that’s supporting Putin engaging in the wholesale murder of innocents in the Ukraine, or one that’s putting innocent millions in slave labor concentration camps. That’s an awful low standard for anyone to maintain, not one that involves "being on a high horse".
We all need to do our part whether it inconveniences us or not, in my opinion anyway.. We can’t solve all the world’s ills, but sometimes it too hard to look the other way, and for me anyway this is one of those times. For my Dad it was Pearl Harbor. For me it’s what’s what Putin and China are doing to people. We’re not even being asked to go over and fight, only to give up buying Russian products to help stop Putin. That shouldn’t be too much too ask, even if it interferes with our listening pleasure.
Mike
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Instead of bragging about finding Russian tubes to buy, you could always support Putin’s horror show in other ways. I for one won’t knowingly purchase any Chinese products either since reading they have between 1 to 1.8 millions Uighurs in concentrations camps, among other acts of outright and horrifying oppression towards them. Not to mention their dictator supports Putin's sickening war.
Google what the Chinese government is doing against the Uighurs. It hardly hits the news here.. We should show some solidarity against evil like did in WW2 or have we forgotten what it means to be American,
Mike
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Prof, if you purchase Russian tubes and they are restocked via China, as mentioned in a post above, you should consider if you might be supporting the Russian economy by doing so. All our government and European allies are presently willing to do to stop Putin’s horrific invasion is economic sanctions or supply weapons, So I feel we all individually need to do our part to support Ukranians being victimized in every little way we can, right down to boycotting Russian tubes or vodka if need be. Personally I wish we’d do a lot more as a nation, but that’s another issue. I hope I’m wrong and the economic sanctions do succeed.
Secondly your statement, "Think this through a little more before the virtue signaling, ok?" is patronizing, Try that on someone else.
This is a time when we can all stand up together, left and right. I feel strongly that’s what we should be doing. Heck, I never thought I’d be agreeing with anything that came out of Lindsey Graham’s mouth, but there’s a first time for everything.
Mike
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Prof, I have to disagree with you, I feel anything we can do to help stop the atrocities going on in Ukraine, including bringing the Russian economy down to stop it, is the least of what we should be doing, Even if it’s only a symbolic gesture like stopping purchasing Russian vodka or buying Russian tubes.
As for the Chinese government having concentration and slave labor camps for Uighurs, I don’t feel like that’s much different than what the Nazis were doing during WW2, except they haven’t resorted to mass executions yet, far as I know anyway. I read an interview with a woman who had been released from one of the camps and then escaped to Kazakhstan,. She told of the gangs that pulled her and other women out of their cells at night on a regular basis to rape them. It was pitiable. I also listened to an interview on NPR how Chinese police have installed cameras and listening devices in Uighurs living rooms in their homes, and regularly spend overnights with Uighur families as part of their oppression of them..
That and other atrocities are nothing I want to support with dollars I use to buy things here at home. I can’t stomach turning a blind eye to that. As Americans we are fortunate enough to be free enough to stand up to pure evil, and should be doing that no matter what side of the political fence we are on.
Go to the trouble of finding Slovak tubes. It’s a small sacrifice, And In my estimation, which will sound harsh to you, you shouldn’t try to rationalize dong otherwise which sounds to me like what you are doing. The Ukranians want to be in the free world. They need every bit of help they can from everyone including us Audiogoners while they and their families are being massacred, and their homes, schools and hospitals are being blown to pieces by that paranoid despot and Hitler wanabee Putin. I don’t feel we’re doing near enough. and I feel we all need to do our part no matter how small. That’s my opinion anyway. Others may not agree and I won’t belabor it anymore in this small corner of my world,
Mike
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Fredfung2021, please clarify who is seeing what narrative and what you think might be actually going on. I’m all ears. Thanks,
Mike
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Facten, you are exactly correct. It’s difficult to do, but way less difficult than what the people and families of those being victimized are enduring. Since very few people are even aware of, much less standing up for them, they are screwed. For that and some other reasons, I try and do what l little I can, which is not much.
If more of us good people joined in, like we seem to be doing in some ways for the people in Ukraine, maybe it would help curb despots from being able to continue to commit the worst atrocities. As the world’s biggest market, as a country we have some real say so if we wield that power for the good. That’s even if we’re unwilling to fight for the victims, like my Dad did as a seventeen year old U.S. soldier in WW2.
My father told me, and it made a big impression, there were concentration camps all over Germany. He said you could tell you were coming up on one from miles away due to the stench. Sadly things like that are apparently still going on in with nobody lifting a finger to stop them, I’m not a religious person, but when it comes to the worst and most horrific excesses, like the current situation in Ukraine, we should be our brothers keeper and stop sick despots from doing what they are doing.to people just like you and I.
Mike
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I thought this headline and story was a scream and shows what regular folk are doing to pitch in on their own:
Russian oligarchs superyacht stuck in Norway because no-one there will sell it fuel.
"NRK spoke with several supplies of fuel in Norway, none of whom said they wanted to deliver to the Ragnar."
"They can row home," an oil service said.
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OK
My sister, who still lives in NY reported to me that people were protesting outside of the Russian Tea Room in NYC. For those unfamiliar, that’s a landmark restaurant in NYC which has been around forever. Since nobody is eating there of late, that should stop Putin. On the other hand some horrible racist pushing an elderly Chinese woman in front of a moving subway train hasn’t slowed down Xi Jinping a bit,
Posting here on Audiogon has yet to do the trick either, but at least is as civilized as protesting the Tea Room, It gives we audiophiles a chance to vent a little as we’re as outraged as everyone else, and in most ways powerless to do much about it. Exception noted for our wonderful member helping Ukranian refugees on site in Poland.
Mike
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Isochronism, quit lying. I saw you wearing it just the other day.
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Facten, good points. about the limited number of Russian imports we are being asked to not buy by our politicians. .People in all walks of life seem to be stepping up to the plate on their own to stop buying Russian imports, more than asked by our leaders, which is lovely to see
We all can’t be be bankers or owners of big businesses which have real clout. But in the small ways we can personally contribute, many are willing and able to do what they can. The politicians could catch up a bit in what they are asking of us.. At least politicians are doing things like you mentioned, which is also good to see. And most of us are pulling in the same direction for once.
Whitefishpoint1175, my hats off to you for your going over to Poland to help Ukranian refugees. Thank you for your service. It would be interesting to hear about what you witnessed and heard there.
Mike
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Prof, I don’t mean to come off as overblown or think that buying Russian tubes makes anyone a horrible person, I do think this is one behavior that deserves a second thought though. It’s a much smaller deal for example than us stopping buying Russian oil .
I’m not trying to make myself feel or look better either, or to make anyone here feel worse, and am sorry if I came off that way to you. Both you and Mulveling have respectively provided me with excellent advice here on amplifiers and tonearms which is greatly appreciated for example, And it speaks well of you to offer assistance and be helpful to myself and the rest of us here..
But nobody is perfect, especially me, Audiogon happens to be one few necks of the woods I frequent, I respect and like most everyone who participates in this forum, except maybe some trolls of course. I can’t imagine anyone here even remotely supports what Putin is doing in the Ukraine. I do feel that every little thing counts and we should consider that. Buying Russian tubes is a little thing of course. It rubbed me the wrong way though, so I responded to it here.
I don’t feel anyone here has the worst possible character and am sorry I came across that way. What I hope to say is that is that everything you and I do is important more than we might think and we should carefully consider any behavior that might support what’s going on now in the Ukraine. I construed buying Russian tubes in that way and should have more carefully considered my response here to avoid appearing overblown, self-righteous or a windbag.
Mike
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