A lot has to do with the particular mastering and pressing. A couple of young friends came over yesterday with a pile of vinyl they just acquired; one was a lime green Capitol of The Band's "brown" album which they thought was an "RL" cut. I cleaned it for them, and cued it up; couldn't see his initials in the deadwax. We played part of the first track. I then pulled out my copy, which is an RL. Vast difference- bass galore. And this happens so frequently with so many older pressings- not just in the bass region, either. Makes you much more selective about which copies you are looking for..... |
BDp24- happy to do a search for you, but short of buying it, play testing it and reselling it to you at my cost, I couldn't guarantee that it is pristine. You can find these records and I'm happy to help you look. You know where to email me, right? (I'm not a used record dealer, but happy to turn you on to any sources I have, and I often resort to good old searches, eBay, discogs, etc. just like everybody else! |
All of those records mentioned- the Yes stuff, the early Free, sound pretty great! For Free, I have early Island pink labels and pink rims, for Yes, some not so hard to find good US pressings, and a couple UK plums. Terrific records, terrific music. I didn't focus much on "prog" at the time- but came back to it with a vengeance a few years ago- mainly as a result of buying a lot of ye olde English pressings from the late '60s and early '70s. Got turned on to a lot of music I never heard, that never made a dent in the U.S.
Some amazingly inventive stuff, at the time, the attempt to get out of the 3 minute radio hit formula and explore different genres, mix them together, long form, more formal compositional elements, etc, was interesting. Some of it doesn't hold up, or is dated or a tad pretentious, but it is still worth exploring. One of my favorites is Gracious! on Vertigo, and the Cressida self titled album, also on Vertigo. There is a cheap way to get some of these...
Buy the 1970 Vertigo Annual, a double record sampler issued in the UK in 1970. |
One of the bands I had never heard of, that is considered "prog" is "Patto." The first self-titled was released in the U.S. on Vertigo and is pretty kick ass sonically and musically (in fact, the US pressing is a bit less 'polite' than the far more expensive UK pressing and that works very effectively with the music). Their second album, Hold Your Fire, has some wonderful music- Ollie Halsall was a gifted guitarist with a vibraphonist's touch. The UK pressings are now astronomically expensive but the US copy (on Paramount if memory serves) does not lack for bass.
Some of the prog 'folk' is also amazing- John Martyn's Solid Air, the Fairport albums during the Denny-Thompson years (3 in one year), i don't know what to label Roy Harper's Stormcock, but it is magnificent, and he was a huge influence on Ian Anderson, Zep, etc.
The first ELP album is one of the cheapest pink labels today and one of the last, before Island switched to the pink rim. It is a pretty cool time capsule when you are in the moo(d)[g], but does sound dated now. |
Correction for Ghost; that eBay copy was not play graded but visually graded, and re-reading the listing not all sides have the same lacquers. so I'd keep looking. |
I think one thing a lot of these latest posts prove is that at a certain point, the various genre categories fail. To me, the era when music changed from middle of the road pablum to psych, harder rock blues, and led to different strands- from changes in electric folk to prog-- was one of the most fertile- say from the mid-'60s to the early '70s. I'm not saying there weren't elements or recordings or bands of interest before or after, but that period was an incubator of change. And, we have to thank the Brits for an awful lot of it, from helping us rediscover blues to providing a launching pad for American musicians, from Hendrix to Garnet Mimms (whose work is as great as any of the other big name soul/gospel singers, but whose name is rarely mentioned, except to note that he is tragically forgotten). I listen to all of it- and tracing back the roots of any one band's influences takes you in many different directions. Or vice-versa (listen to the originators, like Elmore James or Skip James and hear how their songs and styles were reinterpreted by others). |
Ghost- my recollection is, I went through several different copies of Layla before I found one that sounded pretty good and had energy. I had always considered it to be a terrible recording. I can take a look when I get a minute- it's probably an early Atco, but I don't remember the details. Worth revisiting, as is the Delanie & Bonnie album he did, which I bought new when it came out- and was completely turned off at the time- country? WTF? Now, with age, distance, different expectations, and a more broad ranging interest in all kinds of music, it's pretty good as well. I loved Cream, and eventually bought good pressings of many of their records. Blind Faith was another one that was a mixed bag- some great songs, and some filler, plus what I considered to be a wooly, muffled sounding record. The first UK pressings are decent, and not nutty money. I'm just glad I'm not collecting 78's! |
Ghost- I checked this morning, my copy, early ATCO, was done at Presswell (PR) and has 'A' lacquers on all four sides of the deadwax. I don't know how I happened into this copy- it is one touted on the Hoffman board (which is a great resource if you dig into some of the older threads- there are some collectors there who have owned and compared multiple pressings and provide the minutiae). It's still not an "audiophile" record at that. I took a quick look on the intraweb. There is a play graded copy on eBay that was pressed at Monarch, an independent West Coast plant- I tend to like Monarch pressings, on this one the seller actually provides the deadwax/lacquer info, which shows as BB. Have no idea how this sounds- Sometimes the 'A' "B" etc don''t reflect sequence because different lacquers were used at the same time by different plants. The only way to know which is "better" is to listen to it and compare it to the 'A' or others. (Which I haven't done for this record; it isn't a great recording and i did not go beyond what I have; sometimes, I get the bug and will buy a bunch of pressings and compare them).
BDP- I like your depth of knowledge of the music itself.
Both, feel free to write to me via email if you want to talk. I'm not selling anything- just don't want to derail this thread. |
Bdp: I have no issue with your tone but I think technical proficiency has to be mixed with soul or something that conveys emotion. Maybe less of an issue with drummers since I tend to like good jazz drummers playing rock better than a lot of rock drummers. ( though I like Ringo on the early stuff). Some of those old blues guys convey with what I assume are pretty rudimentary skills. Tone and skill: add David Lindley to the list. Leslie West, who was not as technically proficient as a lot of guitarists could get amazing tone and emotion. Don't know where Chris Whitley fits on the skill-o-meter, but listen to Dirt Floor. His voice and guitar playing give me goosebumps. I get the difference between musicians' musicians and less skilled players. Unfortunately there are so many hugely talented players that are unknown. When we heard Little Richard a few years ago in Manhattan he had one of the best bands- with some of the best individual players- I ever heard. They were not credited on the bill or even on his tour website. I saw the show with somebody who is a pretty famous and skilled multi instrumentalist - his words; "those guys were hired killers." |
