Reynaud Bliss Jubile vs Cantabile Jubile

"offer" better, not oder.

I've had a couple of people say to gamble and go for the CJ, including a different dealer. While another couple of people I know say they never buy without hearing first. I would normally side with the latter, but from what I read, this speaker brand is made for me. 

@jackd, what's the sonic difference between the two you own, aside from one going deeper. 

Thank you, @jackd for your response.

I noticed that the Bliss Jubile has a ~6.75" woofer while the Cantabile has two 5.25" woofers. The cabinet on the BJ is a hair wider. 

The thing is I could get an opportunity to demo the Bliss Jubile but not the Cantabile Jubile, however there's an opportunity to get an essentially new Cantabile from a dealer at a great price (I'd get it without hearing it, and no return option), $700 more than the new BJ w/Magic Stand. From what I read, I'd probably love them both, but the CJ would oder better detail and more quickness, in addition to depth (the latter may be good or not, given my small 12'x12' room).

Bob actually did encourage me to get the Cantabile Jubilé. And that's what I'll be getting. 

Thanks @jackd. In fact, they're arriving today (Tuesday). It has been a while since I've had loudspeakers in the room. I've been doing a lot of listening through headphones, but it's not the same. 

I received the Cantabile Jubile in great shape. The retailer said that there had only been about 20 hours on this demo pair.

Thus far, I have about maybe 110 hours on it. The manufacturer encloses a little manual states that it suggests 50 hours to sound good, and then 150-200 hours to fully break in.

Indeed, at first, everything sounded stiff and the top end was very bright, and could get etched, cluttered, and shouty when pushed.  As the speaker has continued to break in, the midrange on down has greatly relaxed and become more expressive. With more midrangey material on down, the sound has become very liquid and relaxed, yet still quick.

But the top end of the Jubile right now, while better than when it started, continues to be overly bright and shouty when pushed, as well as tight. I hear it with higher pitch male and female vocals, as well as massed strings and especially with massed brass (such as Tower Of Power type stuff). It's almost like two different speakers at this point. With music that is predominantly in the midrange on down being very relaxed. I absolutely hear the potential greatness of these speakers. Music which features the top end, however, still sounds tight, constricted, and sometimes etched and shouty.

I know that the design of the speakers, with its 2 and 1/2 way design, allowed the tweeter to go lower in the frequency range that normally done. But it seems as if the tweeter might be taking much longer than the two lower frequency drivers to break in. When I'm hearing something like acoustic music, or chamber classical or jazz, this speaker is sounding lovely. But from the top end of the midrange on up, when pushed, things start to collapse. And I can even hear certain frequencies just suddenly jump out as, say, a saxophone running up a scale. Certain overtones will just jump out. When an instrument or voice (or percussion) jumps out, it pushes that part of the frequency response to jump out and push the instrument out, and it can be unpleasant.  It's better than it was when it started, but I'm wondering what others' experiences might have been with breaking these in?

By the way, my Castle Edens, with the same equipment upstream, didn't have this overly bright or shouty issue. The whole soundstage is placed deeper than with the Castle Edens, my previous speakers, the latter creating larger and more forward images. JM Raynaud, within that same manual, suggests not to be concerned about system matching until reaching that 150-200 hour break in period. I want to be patient, but again, I'm wondering what others might have experienced with these in their break in period.

Thanks,

Jeff

My amp is the Pathos Classic Remix, a tubed hybrid. Certainly not a bright sounding amp. The speaker cables are bi-wired silver Grover Huffman cables. Note that I didn't have this issue with the Castle Edens using the same equipment upstream.

There's certainly a lot of musicality going on. The rest of the frequencies, from the midrange on down, have gotten less tight and more expressive. The speaker is quite liquid when not pushed. The speaker sounds natural and engaging. But when pushed, the top end gets tense and hard, and sticks out from the rest of the presentation.

I'll say this, in that when I first got the speakers, the top end sounded really confused, no focus at all. That is not the case now. It's pretty concise. It's just not relaxed. It's like I'm almost listening to two different speakers with certain kinds of music. With the tweeter taking on more of the frequency response, it seems to be taking longer for the frequencies they're handling to unify.

From the next room, I can hear the life in these speakers. It sounds like real music being made. But I can occasionally hear the hardness up top when pushed. With such ease coming from the rest of the speaker, it makes the top end stick out at that point.

Thanks for the input!

They're about the same place as the Edens. The Edens, however, were designed with the tweeter below and to the right of the woofer. With the Cantibile Jubile, the tweeter is pretty much on line with my ears. My sitting is done on the couch. Not much I can do about that. If I sit up a bit or even stand, the occasional shouty quality is not as pronounced. Toeing out the speakers lessens it a bit as well (but not completely). But there is also a lack of ease in the top end when pushed compared to the midrange on down which has QUITE an ease to it. I can hear both the relaxed qualities of certain music from the next room, as well as when the reproduction gets relatively up tight up top. I'm wondering if further breaking in will result in the top end getting more relaxed. With certain types of music, these speakers can be remarkable.

But back to the shouty quality, I've noticed that if a vocalist sings a short 'a' (as in "had") or long 'e' (as in "needy"), which results in a reedy quality to the human voice (Anyone should be able to reproduce this), that reedy quality exacerbates the shouty quality, like the particular overtone(s) jump out when that word is sung, and it can be a bit unpleasant.

I can try altering that a bit. I can tell you that the hardness when the music in the upper frequencies is dense can be heard from the other room. There's a difference between what's happening from the midrange on down, which is quite sweet.

Funny that I was talking about these speakers in the Steve Hoffman Hardware Forum. I never used the term 'shouty' there, but someone volunteered that they had a pair of Silver Bliss in their house. He tried them in their bedroom and he used the term "shouty". It was unpleasant. They tried them in their large living room and they didn't exhibit that shoutiness. But they couldn't deliver the low end he was looking for, so he ended up selling them. Different tweeter, of course. But that did prompt me to look further at placement.

So in an update, I'm finding that the brightness, the exaggeration of certain upper frequencies can be lessened by other toeing the speakers significantly outward, or listening above the tweeter horizontal axis. As I listen in sort of a fixed position on a couch, my ear line is sort of on the line of the tweeters, therefore what I'll need to do is try to tilt the speaker cabinets forward so I'll be listening above their vertical dispersion. I was leaning back in on the sofa and noticed that the top end of a saxophone was bright, and pushed forward so that the instrument was coming pretty much directly out of the tweeter. When I sat up and above the tweeter, the sax pushed back and became more coherent with the rest of the soundstage, (And when I leaned back, lowering the level of my ears, the sax once again came more directly out of the speaker.).

Another thing about the speaker's performance is that I'm noticing that with simpler material, this speaker is quite lovely to listen to. The speakers sound natural and both relaxed yet quick, as is live music. But when the music gets dense, such as massed brass, massed voices, or massed strings, the upper end soundstage gets cluttered and confused. The speaker loses some of its ability to resolve with clarity and ease in the upper end. I'm still trying to figure out why that is happening and what to do about it.

The thing is, there are many things that this speaker does truly well, and with simpler music, it really plays musically. But then a denser passage will come along and it reminds me that I'm listening through speakers, these speakers.

I have a pair of Monster copper pair of bi-wired cables. They sound darker and a tad slower, but I’ll throw them in. I’m using a pair of 1960s Sylvania, which are an improvement over the Russian-made Electro-Harmonix that came with the unit.

But here is something I did which has improved things quite a bit. I angled the speakers slightly upward. The result was a great lessening of the overt brightness and much better integration between the top end and the rest of it.

I’d still like to see a greater relaxation of the top end compared to what I get from the midrange on down. There isn’t the bloom that there is in the midrange on down. It’s still sounding a bit constrained up there compared to the rest of the speaker’s output, but at least the top end seems to have been tamed from where I’m sitting. If I do raise myself up to me more in the horizontal center plane of the tweeters or if I stand right in front of the tweeters, the brightness returns.

I did replace the Grover Huffman silver speaker wire with the Monster Cable. It's definitely toned down the heightened top end. It's not as precise in the midrange as the Grover Huffman nor as fast, but it's not bad either. I might try to see if I can borrow some other cables to try in my system.

Now that I've had the Monster Cable speaker cables in my system for a bit, I think they're certainly a better fit. There's still a bit of top end to be toned down. The thing with trying speaker wire is that I can't use standard lengths as I need 12' or so at the least. I don't want to just purchase cables and be stuck with them.

Regarding the Sylvanias, Andy had actually recommended them, but I suppose it's worth trying something else. At least he has a return policy with his tubes.

I also tried the Russian Tung-Sols originally supplied with the Pathos, and they're worse in the high end (brighter, brasher) and worse in the bass as well (tubby).

I was playing my the UHQR 45rpm of Kind Of Blue, and oh, does it sound great. There's not a ton of high end in that record, but what I do hear is pretty terrific. Neutral, musical, plenty of small-scale dynamic nuance, very natural, and 3-dimensional images.

But while better than with the Grover Huffman silver speaker cables, it get still sound too bright with brighter records. They're not forgiving. If I raise myself up from my sitting position on the couch a little bit, the brightness gets more pronounced. I may try to angle the speakers back just a bit more. I've maxxed out on what I can do with the spikes (lower in back, raised in the front), so I'll need to find some sort of shims.

I already did. Not as good. It put the midrange/woofer drivers angled toward the floor (where there's a carpet and wood coffee table, and resulted in a less open midrange and less coherent with the top end. Tilting them upward is much better overall.

Well, either the speakers are settling in a bit or I am. I have noticed that certain frequencies can sound a bit harsh to my ears outside of listening to the speakers. My previous speakers didn't seem to exacerbate any hearing issues so it might be that these are more revealing? I don't know. The top end can still sound a bit pronounced and dry compared to the rest of the frequency spectrum. It's not as bad as it was, though, overall.

The speaker come with metal spike places upon which to rest the spikes if you're placing them on a wood floor. They're on a carpet, but it allowed me to angle the speakers back just a bit more and that seems to be better.

Listening to music that doesn't have a ton of massed top end sounds great on these. Listening, for example, to the AP UHQR 45rpm pressing of Kind Of Blue is a revelation on these. And I hear more of a qualitative difference between my CD path and my analog path. The Castle had a romanticism that these don't have nearly as much. The Castles tended to make more things sound lusher, whereas the Cantabile Jubilee might be a bit more honest. But when the sound quality is there, it's even greater than before. And top to bottom (particularly from the midrange on down), there's such an openess and coherence to the sound, and the soundstage is wider and taller. It reminds me a bit of the Magnepan SMGc speakers I had. One of the great qualities of Maggies is their top to bottom coherence.