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Revisiting Tube Recommendations for Cayin TA-30

My appologies if this has already been beaten to death! :)

I hope you all are up for this post! I'll owe you all big time!

I have a Cayin TA-30 (purchased in '03) with mods from Paul that included the sub out. It has been connected to B&W Nautilus 803's and a B&W ASW800. I have a Sony XA9000ES as my cd/sacd player.

I replaced them all once from Paul with EL34's, 12AU7's, and 12AX7's tubes, from EH. Simply put, the TA-30 just doesn't come close to sounding as good as the stock tubes did. It, to me, sounds so flat and not open like it used to. I bias the tubes about every 90 days to keep them running at their best.

So now come the questions.

1st. The broad question I have is I need to replace the tubes again, and I want to replace them all, but there are soooo many options and choices and I'm really not interested in "tube rolling", though I know I really should be. Where does one start? I'm overwhelmed!

2nd. The TA-30, I see, can accommodate my types of tubes. Is a KT88 "brighter" or better, or should I stay with EL34's like it's called for? Should optional tubes be used on the front end? Is the TA-30 "pushed" to much using these other tubes?

3rd. Since I have the TA-30 connected to the sub, should I focus only on mids and highs for tubes?

4th. Is there a source out there where I can get this information without bothering you all? I googled some variations, but just haven't had luck. Is it just me, or are all the tube reviews done on guitar amps, not home audio amps?

Well, wasn't that a mess??? :)

Thanks in advance to you all! I hope this thread can become a resource for all us TA-30 users!

Regards,
Bob
bstromberg1

Showing 8 responses by mikirob

mikirob
955 posts
 
Johnbonn, I just looked up the Cayin TA 30 to refresh my memory, and yes, it does accept the 6L6 tube among others, so, I'm now positive the 6n3ce should be a direct substitute, but please double-check per my references. By-the-way, the Cayin TA 30 looks like a Primaluna Prologue, especially the transformers look to be identical?
mikirob
955 posts
 
Here is my advice: John Bonn is right on, use Amperex Bugle Boys 12au7, Sylvania 5751 3 mica with the 6n3c-e also known as 6p3s-e, you won't be sorry and never look back.
mikirob
955 posts
 
Johnbonn, for many amplifiers the 6n3ce is a direct replacement. I'm not sure about your amp. Please let me refer you to Jeff Days blog, jeffsplace.me/wordpress/ he writes for Positive Feedback and 6 Moons as well as others. I was originally turned on to this tube via his blog and found that his comments to be true in my Primaluna Dialogue 1 and Cary v12. Go to section where he talks about the 6n3ce in his Leben amps against various EL34, other 6L6 variants, KT 66, KT77, KT88, KT90s and so on. Another good source for information is Tube Guru Jim McShane who is authority on this tube and has them in stock, though supplies are dwindling fast. So, I'm cutting my own throat here with the recommend, but I believe I bought a lifetime supply. Best.
mikirob
955 posts
 
Johnbonn, I should have stated the 6n3ce is a direct replacement for almost all 6L6, EL34s, 5881s, etc.
mikirob
955 posts
 
Johnbonn, the Amperex 12au7 Bugle Boy and Sylvania 1957 NOS Sylvania black plate 3 mica in combo with the 6n3c-e magically transformed my Primaluna Dialogue 1. Big, open killer midrange, tighter, more tuneful bass, the top end is sweet, yet airy, no more violin etch, piano to die for, when in the recording, wall-to-wall wide soundstage, deep and layered, rich, wet, weighty, correct saturated tone, flutes and woodwinds also to kill for; and, oh my, Ella Fitzgerald and other female singers are there in room, all in wonderful size and scale. Guitars, guitars, WOW!
mikirob
955 posts
 
I believe 450v/DC is correct: 6P3S, 6P3S-E 6n3ce

My Primaluna Dialogue 1 is auto-bias, makes it a snap to roll tubes.

(6n3C, 6n3C-E)

General
Tetrode, used in output stages of low frequency amplifiers.
Envelope: glass, with octal base.
Mass 70 g.

General characteristics:

Type 6P3S 6P3S-E 6n3ce
Filament voltage, Volt 6.3 6.3
Anode voltage, Volt 250 250
1st grid voltage, Volt -14 -14
2nd grid voltage, Volt 250 250
Type 6P3S 6P3S-E
Filament (heater) current, mA 900±90 880±40
Anode current, mA 72±18 73±13
2nd grid current, mA no more than 9 no more than 6
1st grid reverse current, mkA £ 3 £ 0.5
Cathode current, mA no less than 275 -
Output power, W no less than 5.4 no less than 5.8
Mutual conductance, mA/V 5.2 to 6.8 5.2 to 6.8
Internal resistance, kΩ 25 no more than 65
Inter electrode capacitance, pF:    
input 11±2 11
output 8.2±1.5 6.7
transfer no more than 1 no more than 1
Operation time, h ³ 1000 ³ 5000
Limited operating values:

Type 6P3S 6P3S-E
Filament voltage, V 5,7-7 6-6.6
Anode voltage, V 375 250
2nd grid voltage, V 300 250
Cathode - heater voltage, V 100 90 / -200
Cathode current, mA - 90
Anode dissipation, W 20 20.5
2nd grid dissipation, W 2.75 2
Resistance in 1st grid circuit, kΩ 500 150
Operating environmental conditions :

Type 6P3S 6P3S-E
Acceleration of vibration loads, g 1.5 3
by frequencies, Hz 50 5 to 300
Acceleration of multiple impacts, g - 12
Acceleration of single impact, g - 100
Continuos acceleration, g - 100
Ambient temperature, °С -60 to +70 -60 to +160
Relative humidity at up to 40°C, % 98 98
Plate and plate-grid curves

mikirob
955 posts
 
Johnbonn, do not use me as authority. I'd strongly suggest waiting for a reply from Jim McShane or email Jeff Day, his reply may be quicker. Best.
mikirob
955 posts
 
Johnbonn,
I think Koiman/Paul may have this right, in fact the 6n3ce run cool and will last a very, very long time. I did see one spec that said 410 mV, but that was for a different amp by a person in Europe. At any rate I love the auto-bias feature. I think the Cayin bias procedure is a tough go from what I read. This whole process should be a lot easier.
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