Dear Slate,
>>"Here’s the thing I don’t understand – if the volume pot is a passive means of adjusting gain and the “integrated” amplifier has nothing between the incoming signal and amplifier section other than the volume pot HOW can this not be different from there being an additional gain stage prior to routing the signal to the amplifier section?">
Virtually all preamps (99.x%) has the CD player fed thru a selector switch and then the volume control, then thru the gainstage. Putting another stage before the volume control is just another stage added, in addition to the preamp gainstage already designed in the integrated.
The definition of an integrated is the combining of an amp and active preamp.
>>"CD -> Volume Pot -> Amp Section -> Speakers">
Should be labeled CD -> volume pot -> preamp gainstage -> amp -> speakers. This is what is actually occurring.
Active Integrated amp:
CD -> Line Stage -> Volume Pot -> Amp Section -> Speakers
How can eliminating the line stage section be a bad thing???>
The stage before the volume control is simply yet another stage. Sure, eliminating this stage is advantageous. The more stages, the more feedback loops thru the common power supply. But the preamp stage is already included after the volume control, as any typical active preamp does.
Typical seprates system, non-integrated system.
CD player -> external preamp consisting of a volume control and then preamp gainstage -> amplifier -> speakers
By the way, any external preamp or internal preamp, should be designed to accomodate a volume control ahead of it. That is just standard procedure, just like other companies.
Don't get me wrong Slate. The budget is, of course, most important and one can only spend so much. An integrated is fine for good systems as the price is reduced by the elimination of certain portions of the audio system. With the vast number of manufacturer's out there, many integrateds will outperform separates, and at less cost. I also heard some separates that didn't sound that good at CES. But don't expect the integrated that virtually all are producing to be the pinnacle of audio.
My main concern, Slate, is that
1) There are obvious disadvantages inherent to their designs, I have yet to see a design that addressed this problem in any satisfactory manner. And, from what I have seen and heard, the problems certainly aren't addressed. And the problems have been known for over 50 years.
2) The advertising/marketing I have seen lately where definitions that are changed. I wonder how many other audio people are confused?
Putting down audiophiles, in general, is ridiculous. The vast majority are true music lovers.
Hope this clears things up Slate.
Take care.
Steve
>>"Here’s the thing I don’t understand – if the volume pot is a passive means of adjusting gain and the “integrated” amplifier has nothing between the incoming signal and amplifier section other than the volume pot HOW can this not be different from there being an additional gain stage prior to routing the signal to the amplifier section?">
Virtually all preamps (99.x%) has the CD player fed thru a selector switch and then the volume control, then thru the gainstage. Putting another stage before the volume control is just another stage added, in addition to the preamp gainstage already designed in the integrated.
The definition of an integrated is the combining of an amp and active preamp.
>>"CD -> Volume Pot -> Amp Section -> Speakers">
Should be labeled CD -> volume pot -> preamp gainstage -> amp -> speakers. This is what is actually occurring.
Active Integrated amp:
CD -> Line Stage -> Volume Pot -> Amp Section -> Speakers
How can eliminating the line stage section be a bad thing???>
The stage before the volume control is simply yet another stage. Sure, eliminating this stage is advantageous. The more stages, the more feedback loops thru the common power supply. But the preamp stage is already included after the volume control, as any typical active preamp does.
Typical seprates system, non-integrated system.
CD player -> external preamp consisting of a volume control and then preamp gainstage -> amplifier -> speakers
By the way, any external preamp or internal preamp, should be designed to accomodate a volume control ahead of it. That is just standard procedure, just like other companies.
Don't get me wrong Slate. The budget is, of course, most important and one can only spend so much. An integrated is fine for good systems as the price is reduced by the elimination of certain portions of the audio system. With the vast number of manufacturer's out there, many integrateds will outperform separates, and at less cost. I also heard some separates that didn't sound that good at CES. But don't expect the integrated that virtually all are producing to be the pinnacle of audio.
My main concern, Slate, is that
1) There are obvious disadvantages inherent to their designs, I have yet to see a design that addressed this problem in any satisfactory manner. And, from what I have seen and heard, the problems certainly aren't addressed. And the problems have been known for over 50 years.
2) The advertising/marketing I have seen lately where definitions that are changed. I wonder how many other audio people are confused?
Putting down audiophiles, in general, is ridiculous. The vast majority are true music lovers.
Hope this clears things up Slate.
Take care.
Steve