Retirement integrated amp for a “fiscal conservative”

@ezstreams Congratulations on your retirement, welcome to the club. It is off golf season for me currently, so I am listening to my system about 12 hours a day, some critically, some background as I browse forums and sometimes post, like now, but it is a wonderful life.

Looks like I am much more productive than @wsrrsw , I get half of my nothing to do done at the end of the day. 

Plenty of wonderful suggestions in here, I am sure you would enjoy many of the recommendations given, and you will never know what an Accuphase or Coda integrated will sound like in your system until you try it, but I wouldn’t be so anxious to replace what you have based on the possibility of a few future tube replacements. Knowing what I know, which is half as much as half of the people in here: 

First: I can’t speak to your integrated exactly, but I have the Primaluna EVO 400 pre, and I can tell you changing the tubes to older ones (NOS) from the ones supplied radically transformed it- it is not the same pre-amp at all. From memory I can’t confirm that the bass went from a bloaty ponderous flab to the tight defined tuneful bass I have now, but I recall resolution and clarity being transformative- I could put the stock tubes back in and compare just the bass if you are interested, but then this is a pre and not an amp so I don’t know if that information would translate. As some have stated in here call a reputable tube seller (mentioned in this thread) and get some advice- they might even give you re-buy back if it doesn’t work out.

Second: I didn’t see cables mentioned- but I skimmed the last 2 pages and didn't check your original post again, so I may have missed it- but you can get much better bass with upgrading your power cables/interconnects, so that may be an option. 

Lastly, don’t think solid state amps are problem free- I have had issues and repairs with everyone I have ever owned- everything has a life. Even the reported wonderful, bullet-proof, efficient, and environmentally friendly class D amps- my Nord NC500’s went through both of the power supplies in 4 years- tubes can last longer than that.

@ezstreams

Thank you- actually the system has changed so much this year -the amp I am using right now isn’t even listed in my virtual system yet.

It has been a while since I tested tube rollin’ in the EVO400 myself, so no worries, I needed a good excuse to experience the differences again.

Quick answer: Yes, absolutely the bass tightened up with my RCA Cleartops over the Primaluna stock 12AU7’s.

I still have the Prima Luna OEM 12AU7’s in the carrier spots on the sides (#1 and 6 spots) and I left in the 1960’s Mazda/Brussells f33 rectifiers for all listening. (I think that is what they are ) And RCA Cleartops in the middle 4 spots. I listened to Buddy Guy’s - Blues Singer ’Lucy Mae Blues’ and ’I love the Life I Live’ which have always had a little loose sounding bass to my ears, and I recall it being quite bloomy in the past. I also listened to one of my favourite basstest tracks Holly Cole Train Song. Didn’t touch volume, or anything else, just turned off the pre amp, let it cool a bit, and changed tubes.

First I put in all 4 Primaluna 12AU7’s back in the middle 4 spots- Buddy Guy sounded MUCH louder, and fuller everywhere, and the bass bloomier/less tight- I had an urge to turn it down, I only lasted 5 seconds but clearly obvious-I quickly changed to Holly Cole. Surprisingly I didn’t notice this as much, I believe it was a little looser, would need to go back and forth again to be sure, but after I heard the additional sibilance in her voice it was hard to focus on the bass again!

I put in just the middle 2 RCA’s as suggested, and yes bass became much tighter and controlled- and the loudness I experienced was gone. And just as important Holly’s voice sounded less sibilant.

Putting back in the other 2 RCA’s in #2 and #5 positions to have all 4 back in front, bass was leaner again, but minimally so, perhaps half as much as the middle positions? so Warren was correct in the middle two positions made the most difference.

Now I am wondering if bass, while a little fuller and bloomier with the mix of RCA and PrimaLuna OEM’s compared to all 4 RCA’s might have been more even-keeled? Hmmm, would need more testing to determine a preference personally, but your question is answered and my curiousity satisfied.

As always, my system my ears, and this is with a Zavfino Silver Dart power cable into the back of this EVO400: YMMV- this is my result- pretty obvious actually.

And these RCA Cleartops are the only 12AU7 tubes I have experimented with so far. I planned to get more but after getting these felt the improvement was good enough, and decided to do other things first. Bugle Boys, Telefunkens may be nicer, and for your concerns tighter still in the bass, I don’t know. But Brent Jessee has these RCA Cleartops for just $39 each- so you could get all 4 for the price of one Telefunken!

Whereas a "rabbit-hole" powercord that could tighten up the bass this much would cost many multiples of this, methinks, so a tube experiment would be good bang for the buck.

@audphile1 Yeah, I could see that. If you recall about 6 months ago when I was searching for a warmer, thicker midrange sounding power cable and got the Audioquest Hurricane, as Squeeze/squeeze which is quite a bit cleaner and thinner sounding than Roon, combined with these RCA cleartops was a little thin and bright, even for me! As I love my details and transparency.

The gap has narrowed now between softwares, but Roon still is richer and thicker than squeeze/squeeze, so matched up with these thinner cleaner RCA’s I suppose that is why I don’t mind Roon 90% of the time of late.

Like I said I have yet to try another tube, heard good things about the Brimar’s and they are also on my list.

@ezstreams for sure along with the bass leaning and tightening which is what I focused on above, you may find the midrange/treble has leaned out too much as well- I suggest reading other threads for information and talking to Brent or Andy (I believe he only talks on Friday’s) for advice- I am a tube rolling rookie. But hey, you think power cables are a rabbit hole? Be careful with your tube appetite 

Sorry to keep pummeling this thread, but just read this on Brent's website: Same amp!

"This is the original 1950s RCA black plate that will never be duplicated. This is probably the last time they will be offered at this price. Good supply now, but when they are gone..... Warm blackplate sound with a nice top end. MATCHED PAIRS ARE JUST $109.00. CLIENT COMMENTS: "Hi Brent, Wanted to give you an update. Tubes arrived just as you said they would. Thanks for being in the business you are in, and running it the way that you do. Changes in my PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium HP are not subtle. Tightened bass, liquid lush (but not syrupy) midrange! Increased height and depth to soundstage. But to me most importantly, the Beryllium tweeters on my beloved Usher BE-718 “Tiny Dancers” are now tamed! What was tizzzz is now sustained shimmer on cymbals. All this with only around 12 hours on the tubes. I suspect things will continue to change, and not for the worse. Thank you!! R.J." "

@ezstreams

You did read this, right? I see here in this you just have the 2 gain tubes, whereas my EVO400 has 4 gain tubes, so yes 2 is all you need. But I noticed this quote from there:

If you want to go to a "larger" tube like a 6550, KT88, or KT120 the result may be a little more "pop" to the music, and while the bass may appear to go a little deeper, it will not be as "round" as an EL34.

A little less round is what you are looking for, yes? It's also worth stating some of those bigger tubes can last 10,000 hours, reportedly. 

There are plenty of PrimaLuna threads here on Audiogon, but after searching and if you don’t specifically find what you are looking for perhaps start a new thread regarding your particular issue/desire?