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Replace 2M Black or new phono?

Hi,
newbie here 
Less than a year ago I upgraded my old turntable to new Pro-Ject 6 Perspex SB table with Ortofon 2M Black cartridge. Additionally I bought Pro-Ject Tube Box DS2 phono preamp. 
However, after using them for few months, I tried switch from Tube Box to my integrated amp phono section (Yamaha A-S2100) and really it wasn't so much drastic better or worse result. So I sold phono preamp. However, I began to think maybe with additional cash on the hand, I could sell 2M Black and get in MC cartridges category.... 
Because yes, 2M Black is nice cartridge, and it was big improvement and difference in sound quality from my old Audio Technika AT95E cartridge. However, no offence, just 2M Black is not suited for my perception of cheerful sound. It's very detailed, very "scientific" - ideal reviewers cartridge 

So, my dilema is - what to buy first: cartridge or new phono preamp. However, I got dealer which has AudioTechnica / Ortofon / Denon / Grado / Nagaoka and I can get them cheaper, and sometimes even test-drive.
And with phono preamps is harder, my dealer sells only Pro-Ject and Rega (which both I don't like). So I was reading good reviews, and thinking about Primare R32 phono, which I could buy only online and without listening in my system.
However, if my Yamaha A-S2100 MC integrated phono section is capable to drive and give at least 40-50% of cartridges capabilities - I would take that sound experiment. At the moment I would say, that I'm looking for a different sound signature, not absolute quality.

My cartridges shortlist:
- AT33PTG/II 
- AT33EV 
- AT-OC9ML/II 
- DL-103 or DL-103R 
- Quintet Blue

What's your thoughts? Maybe someone made similar moves or have more educated opinion than me?

My system, if matters:
- Yamaha A-S2100 amplifier
- Yamaha CD-S2100 CD/SACD player
- Pro-Ject 6 Perspex SB turntable with carbon 9 cc Evolution tonearm
- Spatial Hologram M4 Turbo S speakers
- QED Xt40 speaker cables / QED Reference Audio 40 RCA & XLR interconnects
manfredas
manfredas OP
4 posts
 
Thanks for amazing insights and support!I think I'll test some other cartridges from my dealer first, and then - will see... :)
noromance's avatar
noromance
9,769 posts
 
@chakster You keep telling everyone the cartridge is the most important.  It isn't. The turntable and arm are critical to the correct functioning of the cartridge. An excellent table and arm with a cheaper cartridge will beat out a great cartridge in a weak table and or arm. 
gregkohanmim
153 posts
 
Hi Manfredas - I have the same turntable as you.  I had a 2M Black and now am running a HOMC, the Sumiko Evo III which, subjectively to me, sounds a whole lot better.

I'm running mine into a Schiit Mani preamp that is separately powered by an upgraded linear power supply.

Nice setup and reasonably priced for the quality of sound that it puts out.

Since you have the SB version of your table, you don't need the speed control as suggested by an earlier poster since your setup has it built in.

BTW - Not at all surprised that you weren't happy with the Project Tube box - I've yet to come across anyone that's liked them.

Greg
chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
@noromance

You keep telling everyone the cartridge is the most important. It isn’t. The turntable and arm are critical to the correct functioning of the cartridge. An excellent table and arm with a cheaper cartridge will beat out a great cartridge in a weak table and or arm.

This is buils***t, i have various tunrtables such as Luxman PD-444, Victor TT-101 (working), Technics SP-10mk2, Technics SP20 and Technics SL1200mk2. The average cartridge does not sounds better on my Reed 3P "12 tonearm on SP10mk2, even if i will put the top class cartridge on relatively cheap Technics SL1200mk2 the most noticeable difference in sound is the cartridge if we’re using the same phono stage. The difference between cheap conical cartridge and any advanced design is so huge. I’m not trying to say that toneam quality is not important, but if we’re comparing two direct drive tables the better cartridge sounds better anyway (even if it’s mounted on cheaper tonearm). When i put AT-ART2000 Ltd on stock technics arm of SL1200mk2 it will sounds much better than conical denon DL-107 on Reed-3P "12 tonearm on SP10mk2 turntable for example (i remember it quite well). And Technics EPC-205c mk4 cartridge sounds amazing even on SL1200mk2 stock arm, compared to some average cartridge on tonearm with 5000 euro price tag. Of cource the great cartridge on great tonearm is even better (no doubt). I have enough cartridges to say that.

But i’m not sure what you’re calling "weak turntable", if it’s complete junk then maybe, but i gave you an example, the price difference is huge, but still the cartridge is the most important if it is matched well with the arm of no matter price (for example the stock sl1200mk2 arm cost $150 - is that junk?).

pingvin
46 posts
 
Man, I'd suggest you either upgrade your phono stage or move sideways to a cart with a different flavor. Spending more on a cart at this stage I suspect would be a waste of money. 

I'm running a 2M black myself. I had previously thought of it as bright and uninvolving, including mounted on the VPI Classic I used to own. On my new set-up, it sounds compelling. (I asked Jeff Catalano of High Water Sound for a budget cart to hold me over after buying the TW Acustic table and arm and selling my VPI/Soundsmith rig; I protested about the Ortofon, but he was absolutely right.)

That said, the 2M black is a very "truthful" cart, with no romance of its own. That's why I'd say upgrade the phono stage (and eventually the amp) to something with more soul, or swap out the 2M for something in the same price range but with a different flavor. The ATs you list are great, but not very far away from the Ortofon house sound -- of what your dealer offers, the Grados and Nagoakas would give you something very different IMO. (I can't advise on compatibility with your  tonearm, that said.)

One final thought: especially when it comes to cartridges, I'd be suspicious of any categorical statements in these forums along the lines of "the SonicBombast 2000 will leave that Lothario Audio Don Juan XXX in the dust." There are simply too many variables at play. 


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