Rega RB 1000 - Outgunned by Origin Live?

A poster (Cmk) suggested a Schroeder Arm as an alternative to the Hadcock and the Graham. Since I am exploring unusual options, I thought it might make an interesting thread. So, I will start a thread on the Schroeder Model 2 arm, its compatibility with the Technics, and its compatibility with the Ortofon 2M Black.

I've found out that I can actually fit a unipivot to my beloved Technics. This was the type of arm that I was going to fit a Nottingham I had. Didn't think I could get a unipivot on to the SL1210, so I was going with the Rega/Origin Live mob. See other thread for the unipivot story....

Wise words from Sunnyboy1956- thanks! I'm now looking at a Ortofon 2M Black- see other thread.

I have moved from a RB300 to a RB 1000 a few months back and would disagree that the RB 1000 is merely a trumped up version of its younger sibling. Have done an A/B comparison using initially a Sumiko Bluepoint 2 cart and later with a Lyra Helikon. The differences are not minor. Is it worth the price difference ? I am not even going to attempt an answer to that as at one level its a personal and subjective choice and if there really was an objective answer then the future of high end audio, IMHO, would be bleak. Given all my subjective limitations the RB 1000 makes enormous sense to me and I would not hesitate to recommend it. I have no knowledge or experience of the OL arms and therefore cannot comment.
Your choice of arm should take into account the cart you intend to use.
Just my 2bits.
Cheers

Hello Everyone,
Thanks for all the information. It seems that Audiogon bloggers have little taste for either the Origin Live Silver or the Rega RB1000. Unfortunately, the arm will cost $300-$400 where I live to rewire. Although there are ways to help other other aspects of the wonderful Technics SL1210, there are really only two ways to fix the very grey and muddy sound of the tonearm. One, as discussed, is to rewire, then buy the KAB fluid dampener. The other way is to replace the arm with one of my preferred options: Either a 2nd hand Rega RB1000 (which has had full rewire with Cardas from stylus to RCAs -ie full length of the tonearm to the connections to the phono-stage) or an Origin Live Silver. Has anyone had experience with these tonearms? The Origin Live early models copped a bit of flack for quality control. True? The Rega 1000 is just a trumped-up RB300. True? Any thoughts regarding these tonearms would be greatly appreciated.

Johnnyb53
The soundstage you get, is it 3D on good recordings? I was a bit concerned about the HifiWorld review with the modded RB250 where the reviewer mentioned the soundstage was somewhat 2D.

Are you kidding? When I sit in the sweet spot I feel like I'm on the threshold of a sonic hologram. In fact, several reviews of the SL12x0 series mention that they're good with depth, not so good with width. But I have both now by getting the Sumiko headshell/Denon DL-160 combo, replacing the stock headshell gasket with a thinner one, adding the fluid damper, and platforming the TT to drain vibration.

All those tweaks delineated the soundstage very well--widened it and added definition to the depth. It always had depth; now it presents depth to the back of the stage of a concert hall when recorded that way.

I have a Columbia "Great Performances" reissue of Stokowsky conducting the Bizet Carmen and L'Arlesienne suites, and the soundstage is breathtaking. It haunts me in between listenings.

I also have some live jazz records--L.A. Four at a jazz festival and the Brubeck Quartet at Carnegie Hall, and in both cases I feel like the sounds line up in my living room like they did in the original performances.

Cytocycle
I've heard the little brother of your TT, the Performance(?). Yes it is very quiet and has virtually no bearing chatter with the CMB. The Benz cart was also probably designed with the Clearaudio, hence the synergy.

Johnnyb53
The soundstage you get, is it 3D on good recordings? I was a bit concerned about the HifiWorld review with the modded RB250 where the reviewer mentioned the soundstage was somewhat 2D.

"Sometimes the music I play on this rig haunts me for days." At the end of the day, this is the most important factor, the music speaks to you. Great stuff!

05-04-08: Cmk
Hi Cytocycle
Interesting comment about the Technics arm. I think Kevin feels the M5G version with the upgraded tonearm wire is good enough that it may not be necessary to rewire the arm.

I have an M5G, and while the upgraded wiring may not be quite up to what a fresh rewire with Cardas or Kimber would offer, I have no complaints and have never felt that the M5G tonearm wire holds the turntable back.

Get a Sumiko headshell or at least get upgraded headshell leads and clips.

I will also testify that the KAB fluid damper helps the the stock tonearm reach its potential. The tonearm's fine balance and extremely low bearing friction are now modulated by the damping fluid, eliminating groove chatter and minimizing overshoot. Suddenly there's plenty of soundstage and I can "hear the room," no question.

I lo-o-o-o-o-ve my SL1210 M5G with fluid damper, better mat, and record clamp. It draws me into any kind of music I throw on the platter--classical, country, rock, jazz, solo, small ensemble, or large--it all draws me in and moves me. Sometimes the music I play on this rig haunts me for days.

Dsa: Don't write off the Technics arm, once my old table had the Silicon damper, the whole table was vastly improved, plus the Mapleshade m6 threaded brass footers and 4" Timbernation maple board. The KAB record clamp and the thicker Technics Mat also helped. I was going to get the Isoplate mat if I had kept the table.
My comment about sticking with the Technics arm was related to the damping trough as I found that made a huge difference compared to my RB300 (modified with Michell counterweight), plus the lack of easy VTA really sucked. I was spoiled by the simplicity to setup of the Technics, and the ability to get a headshell that could allow for Azimuth adjustments which the Rega arms can't do.

DSA: Another Arm to consider is what I'm using now which is a Clearaudio Satisfy which has saphire bearings and amazing cabling.. there is no comparison to the RB300 I had and these arms are a great value with the upgrade cabling and connectors... The Clearaudio Satisfy arm has a Rega Mount on it.... Just throwing out that as an option over the Origin Live. You can look at my system thread to see pictures of the arm.

Cmk:I love my Clearaudio Ambient Magnum with CMB (ceramic magnetic bearing), it has a regenerator built in so it locks at 33.3 or 45 and starts quickly with a push of a button like the Technics and is wickedly speed stable (you should hear pianio on it). I was having a problem with my 5" bass port on my Wilson Maxx's affecting the playback of my turntable (Funk Vector with RB300, bought after selling the Technics Sl1210) sitting on my Salamander Berlin's Glass top. So I suddenly need a table with suspension or sometype of isolation. I had done the 4" maple block and it works great but it is just massive on my small rack so I wanted a table that incorporated some vibration capabilities (you could feel the guitar strum on the glass top of my rack....) The Clearaudio Ambient uses Aluminum sandwiched bulletproof plywood which allows me to hit my knuckles on the top glass while playing a record and hear absolutely nothing through my speakers.. truely stunning the level adjustable footers and the Ceramic Magnetic Bearing work amazing.. plus because of the CMB the noise floor has been lowered in a huge way compared to my Technics so now I can really listen into the music, and I can't say enough about how stunning the Benz LP cart is!!!

Hi Cytocycle
Interesting comment about the Technics arm. I think Kevin feels the M5G version with the upgraded tonearm wire is good enough that it may not be necessary to rewire the arm.

Just curious about how you feel the sound of your current rig differs from the Technics?

Thanks Cytocycle for the response. I checked with the manufacturer of the plate- it just needs three extra holes drilled to accommodate the the three point mounting system. As for the Technics arm- I would have to detach the arm and send it OS for the re-wire work. If I'm going to go to that much trouble I thought I would go the whole way and get a new arm. I feel that the arm was designed for a time when a different range of cartridges were available and when design priorities were different. However, Kevin from KAB has a strong and well wrought argument for the quality and design attributes of the Technics arm. On a different note, I'm going to put in a post regarding a couple cartridges I own.

The RB1000 doesn't mount like an RB250/RB300 so I don't think it will mount on the Origin Live board. quoted from manual "It is fitted to the plinth by a 3-point fixing."

I had a Technics SL1210M5G and later moved to a table with an RB300. I prefer the Technics arm by a long shot over the rega arms.... GET KAB silcon damper for the Technics and rewire the arm... I sold my Technics to a friend and he put the damper on and it totally transformed the table.

or if you want to change arms you can get an SME mount and install and SME IV or something similar.