I am also about to rewire my RB700 with the Incognito kit. Jerry, can you share your experiences after about a year with a tricked-out P5?
Also, I have used both a Dynavector 20XL and a Shelter 501 MKII and both have been excellent cartridges for the RB700/P5, to a Heed Quasar pre. Check those cartridges out if you haven't already.
I also have the Groovetracer reference subplatter, platter, and counterweight, and all have added incremental benefits to the P5's performance IME.
My stock RB700 arm had some azimuth issues - it wasn't quite square with the platter. So I am investigating the Riggle VTAF with new (and unadvertised as of now) AZOF - Azimuth on the Fly - to try to solve this problem. |
Can't advise you re the hum issue, but be carefull re the Grado's output and the EAR. If your Grado's output is .5mv, you will have a problem with the EAR's 500 ohm input impedance in MC mode. If you have the 5mv version of the cartridge you are OK, in MM mode. |
Thanks again for all your input, I now have another potential issue. I have decided to try the Grado Statement Master, for my Rega. I had a couple of suggestions about the Grado and I have always liked them in the past. I now have been told that there is a potential hum issue with the Grado/Rega TT combo. Due to unshielded motor housing in the Rega. Is anyone familiar with this and if so, what are some possible solututions, other than selling the Grado as soon as it arrives.
Thanks again in advance. Jerry |
Hi Reb, While I am trying to 'get' those mods as cheap as
possible you are persistent in the opposite. Why should one
buy an expensive tonearm and then rewire the thing?
For the Rega 300 this makes sense in (co)relation to the price. Roy Gandy gets +/- 50% of the selling price so he must be economical somewhere. He is maybe an stubborn guy but it is totaly different matter to suppose or suggest that he is an incompetent designer. Those Regas are an immense success you know. In particular the 300/250 versions.
Regards, |
Raul, I have been reading some of your MM/MC threads and you obviously have quite a bit of experience. I have using the buy what I saw and what I could afford at the moment, method of building a system. Based on limited knowledge, being a novice, although I have been playing with hi-fi for over thirty years. My system, currently is, Mac 275 tube amp, the modern version, Mac 220-c tube pre, EAR 834P Preamp, Adcom GFA-555 solid state Amp, the tweaked Rega P5, as well as a VPI TT, intro model ,with numerous mods, including Scout platter, upgraded Rega 300 arm, upgraded sub platter and arm board, all acrylic and upgraded bearing. I am using B&W 804 speakers and my music runs from Jazz and Classical to classic rock. I don't have the money to make any significant purchases right now, but I am still looking for the ideal cartridge for my Rega P5, 700 arm, taking into consideration the rewiring and the EAR phono pre. Incidentally I use the Mac tube 275, to run the high end and the Adcom solid state 200 wpc, for the woofers in my bi wired B&W's. Any thoughts? Sorry for the long post but I thought since I am trying to learn rather than using the hit and miss approach I have been using I should get it all out there.
Thanks again |
As you are mistaken about my skills, Reb, re DIY soldering and wiring, I am having Galen Carol in San Antonio, do a re-wire, with Cardas/Incognito as he has done tonearms for me before and is very good. I have the ability to take TT's apart, and even get them back together occasionally, but I draw the line at wiring. I was tempted to trade up to the P9, but it is very expensive and I can always do it after I have spent some time enjoying the work I have recently done, platter, counter weight, now the wiring, Rega wall mount. Now I only need to find the best cart, for this TT and the EAR 834P Phono Pre. I am about to take some time and advice from Nandric and go back and catch up on the MM/MC revolucion. I own an old Supex 901 Super and think it's great, but I am always looking for somethin better and improvement, I just don't seem to always get it by opening up my wallet.
Thanks to all of you. |
Nandric,
Being that you appear to have DIY skills, then just install a DIN at the base. You can keep the internal arm wire as that is the least detrimental to the signal in stock form. Its the Klotz co-axial that absolutely has to go. |
Reb1208, The ground wire one can change for $1. Onscrew the pillar plug,onsolder the ground from the left(?) channel and extend the ground wire from there.One will need
an small hole in the pillar plug to extend the wire. But one can of course pay $150 to $250 to somebody else to do this job for him.
Regards, |
Birdmanpa, I am not a historian but there was some kind of
'Ancien Regime' in the 1970's. Ie the regime of MM carts.
To impress your mates you needed,say,an ADC 25 or Shure V-15. The aim was to get at least 90 Mu, without any buzz in the R channel, from your test LP. You also needed those fragile tonearms such that you was not allowed to breathe
near them . Otherwise you needed to adjust them again.
'The revolution' was caused by SUPEX 900, an MC cart. And since then nobody wanted to be in any way 'associated' with
an MM cart. Only some 'decadent bourgeois' persisted in using them. Probable because they were not able to afford
an Supex.
The 'contra-revolution' started exact on 01.15.08 in our
Forum and was caused by an descendant of E.Zapata. We call
him 'comrade Raul'. You must be a new member because each
and everyone else is ,eh, familiar with the thread about the MM carts. As novice you should read the whole caboodle.
I personaly think that 'comrade Raul' only reestablished
the 'Ancien Regime' but because I like him very much I prefer to use 'revolutionary language'.
Regards,
Regards, |
I highly advise you to change the stock wire in the Rega "700" arm. I'm sure Rega still connects the ground to 1 of the signal path wires. I have a 1000 and changed the wire. Pick one of the aftermarket wires, Cardas-Discovery-AudioNote. Any one of them is better than what you have now. |
Thank you Frank and Nandric. Nandric, what is the contra-revolution? I am not sure I know what you mean by that, I saw nothing by Raul about a MM cartridge. Thanks |
Nandric,
I've also read that there are different Audio Note wires. But I have not been able to get any information on that. I've contacted AN's Asia distributor but never got any reply. I found a dealer in Singapore that carries an AN tonearm wire but never got a reply from him to see which is which. So the only two places that I have found to be able to supply the wires are Audio Note UK and an internet DIY parts supply store in UK.
I wanted to rewire my SME V with it. I am planning on sending my arm back to SME to get a tune up. As part of the service, they replace the existing wire with a new silver wire. But they said they could rewire with the AN wire if I supply it.
FrankC |
Dear Birdmanpa, You should not 'blow over'. The EAR 834P is
an decent phono-pre but an decent LOMC for $1000? If you persist on LOMC then there is no escape from second hand 'choice'. A tricky busyness. So you should check Rauls MM (contra-revolution). Those are 'better' for all 3 of yours: the EAR,the Rega 700 and for you .
Regards, |
I have seen the wiring on the 300, and it looked like lamp cord, which is why I had it rewired with the Incognito wiring and the difference was night and day. As I said I have decided to keep the 700 wiring as it is and now I have another question, as I have only gotten good advice from you folks. I would like to know what are some good cartridge fits with the Rega 700, now that I have done the Groovetracer sub platter, acrylic platter and counter weight mods. I am using a EAR 834P Phono preamp, so low output MC is an option and I want to keep it under $1000.00. What about the Lyra Dorian, or the Grado Statement Platinum 1? Any thoughts would be welcomed. |
Dear Frogman, Roy Gandy is known as a guy with very strong
opinions regarding (for our context) the wiring and the rigidity. So no VTA adjustment of any kind in (co) relation
to the 'importance' of the rigidity. To the critics of the
wiring in his Rega 300 his answer was: 'wiring is nonsence, a myth'. But then he changed the wiring in his
Rega 900. Ie the 'low capacitance Klotz' as I already mentioned. So he got an 'endless series' of jokes on his account. Meanwhile there were all kind of producers who were able to fill up the gap. To many to sum up.One will
think that if he was not as 'self-willed' as he actualy is he could keep the whole business to himself. Alas. So no wonder he is not very informative about the wiring. Have you ever seen the wiring of an Rega 300 or 301? I bought the new Rega 301 for my son and was shocked by the amount of corrosion(?) on the wire. So I made my own investigation and rewired the tonearm myself.I hope the others can profit from my investigation because I already
provided the info about 'how to do this'. A piece of cake
because of the construction.
Regards,
Regards,
Regards, |
Where does Rega mention that the wiring in the rb-700 is improved over the models lower in the line? According to the Rega website, in their description of the tonearms, only the rb-1000 is mentioned as having improved wiring.
I have to respectfully, and strongly, disagree with the above posters on the merits of improved wiring for this arm. Even if the wiring is "improved", I doubt that it would be of the quality of the Cardas, never mind the AN. Also, remember that the improvement is derived not only from the improvement in the raw quality of the wire, but also, and possibly even more importantly, from the elimination of several solder joints along the signal's path, by going directly to the phono input jacks.
IME, the improvements from eliminating all those solder joints along the path of the very fragile low-level signal, were revelatory. Nonetheless, you have a fine arm as is, enjoy it. |
Learsfool, According to Kershaw (Audiophilia,nov.2001 ; Google: Rega 600) the Rega 600 got the same wire as Rega 900. Ie 'low capacitance Klotz'. Since all those Regas are
actualy the same 'construction' the wiring and 'selected bearings' are the primary reasons to pay more for the 'higher' versions (then Rega 300).
Regards, |
It is also my understanding that the wiring on the RB700 is significantly superior to the RB300, in fact that is one of the P5's selling points over even the new P3-24. I would say put your money elsewhere. |
Thank you to all for your excellent input. I have decided after all this to keep the current wiring as I have idea at all which way to go. I noticed a world of difference in the 300 rewiring, but from my reading, it seems Rega has in fact improved the wiring on the 700, dramatically. I am totally useless with a soldering bun so anything I do will have to be done with my wallet, which is growing thinner. Right now I will enjoy the new EAR 834P phono stage and Dynavector 17D3 with the wonderful Groovetracer mods. The superb sounding Adcom 555, pushing my JBL LE15A's and the MAC 275 powering the Janzens esl's through my Mac C220. The wiring will have to wait, but I appreciate all the input for future reference.
P.S., I just purchased the Adcom from another Audiogon member and it is sweet for those beautiful Vintage JBL's |
You may want to consider installing a DIN connector at the bottom of the arm mount. This way you can experiment with different phono cables without having to rewire the arm itself. Cardas makes one for about $10.00. |
Raul& Frogman, see: Google 'Rega 700'; Rega 301 vs Rega 700. It seems that even in Rega 600 the wiring was improved
( in comp. to the Rega 300).
BTW rewiring the Rega is very easy. See: www.tnt-audio.com
or Google 'Rega rewiring'; Analogue Bits.
Regards, |
|
As far as I can tell, the 700 uses the same wiring as the models lower in the line. Thus, would benefit from higher quality wiring. |
Dear Nandric: +++++ " One needs the riwiring for the Rega 300/250 but not for the 'higher' versions. They are ok. " +++++
good point. Maybe as you posted Birdmanpa can use that money elsewhere like LP's!
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
Hi Birdmanpa, The 'identity' is an very difficult notion. So one will assume: 'audio note = audio note'. Alas this is not the case.
There is the British 'Audionote' and there is the Kondo-san
'Audionote' from Japan. The Britons have stolen the 'brand'
from Kondo-san and are 'consuming' the merit of Kondo-san.
If you want the real audionote wire for your tonearm then the price will be more then your tonearm. But you are confused. One needs the riwiring for the Rega 300/250 but not for the 'higher' versions. They are ok. So ,to my mind,
you should put your own money elswhere.
Regards, |
Thank you Rauliruegas. I will research this product also and I appreciate your input, as I am fairly new to the mid to higher end area of hi-fi and have a lot to learn. |
I agree with Raul. I have rewired my ET2 three times over the years; cartridge clips to phono input jacks, in one continuous run. The Cardas is good, but to my ears considerably behind the Discovery and the Audionote. The Audionote is what I used for the most recent rewire, and it is far and away the best of the four (I include the original Vandenhul silver/copper wire). The improvements in the areas of tonal refinement, detail, openness of the soundstage, and overall clarity were amazing. I can't recommend this wire enough; it is fantastic. $290 for 1.5 meters, with cartridge clips attached.
Suggestion: If you decide to try the AN, it's main disadvantage can be turned into a big advantage. The wire is so thin that it is tricky to work with. However, because it is so thin, you could run the wire externally, and leave your arm's original wiring intact. The extra "drag" of the wire's loop around the arms bearing (external), is completely negligible. Attach your own RCA's and you are good to go. I have never had issues with shielding when using MC cartridges. With MM's, shielding became necessary. If you really want to "guild the lily", skip the RCA's altogether, and solder the wire directly to the input trace on the pre's board, or at least to the back of the input jacks inside the preamp. You will be amazed. |
You are correct. The entire kit is made from the Cardas wire.
Is the entire re wire worth it or would just doing the internal Cardas upgrade make a big difference? Does anyone know if the Incognito rewire will make a big enough difference in performance over stock wiring? |
Dear Birdmanpa: IMHO the Cardas one is reference of nothing. This cable is used because people normally does not know something better and in the other side because some tonearm rewiring sources use it but IMHO is not a good cable for this specific and extremely critical place/stage.
I think that if you really want better quality performance from your analog rig through a tonearm rewiring then the Audio Note is way better choice than the Cardas one.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
Well, I took your advice and have written to Brit Audio about these options and if the Cardas is as good, i will certainly go for it as it is $100.00 cheaper than the Incognito. Again Thank You.
Jerry |
I like the Cardas better. I'm pretty sure that the Incognito actually uses Cardas wire in a portion of their rewire kit. Maybe ask Brit Audio about the difference. |
Thank you Mofimadness. Do you think the Cardas is the better option for this arm than the Incognito? Thanks again for your suggestions. |
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