Old 57's ?
Recommended for Americana Fans: Amanda Ann Platt and the Honeycutters
I spend many hours exploring artists unfamiliar to me on Spotify. This week I came across this band. I’d never come across any mention of them before and thought other Americana fans here might enjoy them.
New York born and transplanted to North Carolina, Amanda Ann Platt is an excellent songwriter who’s asserted she’s as much influenced by Springsteen and Tom Petty as by Classic Country artists. Although a cursory listen might suggest the music is Country (due to the presence of pedal steel and mandolin and the overall rhythmic feel), the writing is more sophisticated and not hobbled by adherence to familiar Country tropes. In other words, it stands up to repeated listening. I particularly like "On The Ropes". On this particular record, the utilization of a Strat, incorporating bluesy bends and a Knopfler-esque tone imparts a Rock tinge that is distinctly different from Tele chicken-pickin’.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDVVjPva0vI&list=OLAK5uy_lXj0YAS5kf7T47Eu-vEExnAyKAGjCSggk&index=2
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This AI definition is in accordance with how I see it but others may have different opinions.
EXCEPT that I don’t see it as strictly contemporary. I’m not familiar with Old 57’s but I’d say T. Joe White is Americana. He’s got Blues, R&B and maybe Cajun influences but his music doesn’t sound like "the pure forms [he] draws from".
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To my ears, at least, Timbuk 3 sound too far removed from Roots styles to be called Americana. Another example: the Stones clearly display Country and Blues influences but still, I wouldn’t call them Americana. Iron and Wine brings up the sticky nature of defining what Americana is. To me, "Our Endless Numbered days" reminds me mostly of 60’s/70’s singer/songwriters who were influenced more by Folk than Tin Pan Alley. It can seem arbitrary after a certain point but yes, FWIW, I would regard Iron and Wine as Americana.
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@stuartk I understand....I was reaching with the Timbuk 3 suggestion. |
Uncle Tupelo -- from what I've heard, Yes. I think most would agree that Alt Country fits within Americana. Tift Merritt is interesting. She's clearly not pure Country, Rock or Pop. What's the dividing line line between the Singer Songwriter and Americana genres? I'm not sure it's clear-cut. The fact that many singer-songwriters release recordings that vary significantly in terms of production, writing approaches, instrumentation, etc. doesn't make this any easier. The question I'd ask is: how closely does "Travelling Alone" adhere to the Roots? How does it compare to this, for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WczcBuUk2XY&list=OLAK5uy_m9D2aChpR-LNvdXnLmLqtapzh7Ey_5FFI&index=2
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When I saw Kelly Willis, Brennen Leigh, and Melissa Carper about a year ago, Brennen started the evening by mocking the term Americana. She said it seemed to her to be a term used by those feeling that pure Country music wasn’t cool, by those who wanted to distance and differentiate themselves from what is called Country music. She said Country was already cool. But of course Brennen was referring to "Traditional" Country, not the schlock now played on Country radio: "Bro Country". You know, the guys who drive down to the river in their pickup truck to drink beer with their baby. Duh.
There are those who call The Band’s second album---the s/t "brown" album---the first Americana album, and I guess that case can be made, though I don’t do it myself. I think of Americana as an umbrella under which may be collected the artists who combine elements of Traditional Country, Folk, Singer-Songwriter, Rockabilly, Hillbilly, Bluegrass---in other words, basically acoustic music played by whites. Plus maybe some Blues. Lucinda Williams is a perfect example. Not really Country, only partly Folk, lots of Singer-Songwriter, and a fair amount of Blues. She was one of the first of the "modern" artists to include all those elements in her music, starting back in 1979, with her two albums on Folkways Records. Her later success with her breakout album Car Wheels On A Gravel Road was the first big-selling album in the "Alternative" Country genre. Earlier albums by the new breed of Alt-Country males (Steve Earle, Dwight Yoakam, Randy Travis, Lyle Lovett, Ricky Skaggs, Marty Stuart) is a different matter. They are all more purely Country, without Lucinda’s other influences.
I realize there are those whose introduction to what is considered Americana was with the No Depression gang of young fellas. Sorry, but Uncle Tupelo sounded like little boys trying to sing a man’s music. Jay Farrar of Son Volt is pretty good, but Jeff Tweedy of Wilco leaves me cold. I have a real problem with flat singing
Marty Stuart and His Fabulous Superlatives don’t get nearly enough attention. The current best band in the world!
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I was hoping you’d chime in. I’ve not been a fan of Alt Country, but it generally seems to be accepted by reviewers as Americana and I haven’t felt confidemt challenging this characterization. I don’t understand Ms Leigh’s objection. Apparently she believes Country "owns" a certain stylistic slice of American music. I’d love to hear her try to define what she means. I feel the same way about flat singing.
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@stuartk: Alt-Country was to me guys who grew up on Rock, and at some point suddenly discovered Gram Parsons. Then Merle Haggard, Buck Owens, and Hank Williams. Thinking you can suddenly play Country music after growing up on Rock is delusional. The two require completely different approaches, different attitudes, different feels (many Rock drummers can't "swing"). The drummers in the original Alt-Country bands simply did not understand what the music calls for from their instrument (and not just them. Gene Parson's tenure with The Byrds is a glaring example of inappropriate drumming). I certainly didn't when I heard Music From Big Pink. The playing on that album was a foreign language to me. For about a year. Once I "got it" (the music), I dove in head first, basically starting over on how to play the drumset. As in what the music calls for, and how to play as a member of an ensemble. Artists like Steve Earle, Marty Stuart, Buddy Miller, Lucinda Williams, Emmylou Harris (in the 70's she had the best band in the world---The Hot Band), Rodney Crowell---and all the other's "we" like---understand the commonality between Country and Rock, as well as what differentiates them, and hire players who also do. It's what separates the men from the boys. in the below video, listen to and watch how the drummer provides the feel of the song (in the style Levon Helm referred to as the "half-shuffle". Its not a full on shuffle, but has a hint of it. It's a great feel, one elusive to do well), as well as how he responds to what the other players are doing. Then listen to how all the guitars drop out during the piano solo, until the final bar, when they roar back in, the drums leading the way with a perfect single-stroke roll. Superb Musicianship and ensemble playing!
https://youtu.be/KnqBH7jLb0I?si=GEtMTfugdnoSLYwS
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The "dividing line" is a hard one for me. Ever since musical genres became very mixed around the 90s and going forward, I don't feel confident in my classification skills but choose to highlight some artists here that seem to me have merit as Americana. The Hiatt video seems to me to be more Roots/Country but couldn't that be an Americana description as well? |
It can be hard for me, too. But not in the case of that Hiatt album. I wouldn’t call it Country. There’s just as much Blues influence and some Folk, too, which for me, is makes it unambiguously Americana. You can clearly hear the Roots genres it draws from, but it doesn’t adhere to any single Roots genre. As @bdp24 asserted, Lucinda Williams is a great example of this. Alt Country always sounded to me like Alternative Rock guys trying to play Country, as opposed to Classic rockers. Hard for me to put my finger on the difference, but I do hear a difference. As a guitar player, I tend to focus on guitar. Limiting habit! But I hear what you mean, re: the drumming, now that you’ve pointed it out for us. |
@stuartk: Rodney Crowell first became a National name as the leader of Emmylou Harris’ Hot Band. He played acoustic rhythm guitar and sang harmony with her, and her band included the likes of Tony Brown (later becoming a major Country music producer), Albert Lee (everyone’s favorite Tele player), Emory Gordy, Jr. (later in Dylan’s band), guitarist/mandolinist/singer Ricky Skaggs, and pedal steel master Hank DeVito (and writer of "Playing With The Queen Of Hearts", the best version being that of Dave Edmunds). Buddy Miller now serves Emmylou Harris as her bandleader.
It is my opinion that to qualify as Americana, the music has to have the "Southern" feel, as does Country. I don’t know how to characterize "Southern", but I know it when I hear it, and know when I don’t. It is conspicuously absent in the music of many of the Alt-Country artists and bands. To hear it, listen to the music containing the playing of The Swampers, the renown Muscle Shoals studio band.
There is a good book entitled Country Music: White Man’s Blues, written by John Grissim and published in paperbook in 1970. Highly recommended.
John Hiatt is almost a genre unto himself (as is Dylan, Richard Thompson, Van Morrison, and other unique and unclassifiable artists). John Hiatt’s Bring The family was for years my favorite album, and is music making at the highest level. Hiatt isn’t Country, being more of a Blue-Eyed Soul singer and writer. But remember, in the 1950’s Blues was considered a form of Folk music. In the South, all musical forms tend to get integrated. Elvis’ five Sun singles (and 78’s) contained a Blues on one side, a Hillbilly on the other. Hank Williams learned to play guitar from a local Blues street musician.
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I know. We saw the classic line up of the Hot Band (the one on Luxury Liner) sans EmmyLou at a tiny venue in Santa Barbara (The Bluebird Cafe) in the late 70’s. For good measure, they brought along BOTH Albert Lee AND Frank Reckard ! Rodney was the de facto leader that night, singing most of the lead vocals. I realize Hiatt did not begin as anything close to Americana. I agree -- "Bring the Family" is a killer album. And I’d agree that in the South, the various Roots genres tend to blend together. I’m just not sure that Americana music must be Southern. I do get what you’re saying about Hiatt being almost a genre unto himself like Dylan. Both clearly draw from Roots genres deeply. This makes sense. Another question: how would you classify recent Marty Stuart albums such a "Altitude" that seem to mostly refer to the Byrds’ Country forays?
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Since we're on this topic... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Vn0Dz7InjI To quote Willie Nelson: "There are two kinds of men in the world; those who are in love with Emmylou and those who have not met her". |
@stuartk: Your comment about mine regarding Americana and the South had me reconsider the matter. Perhaps instead of using the term Southern, "rural" is more of what I'm taking about. I've thought in terms of Southern for a number of reasons, first and foremost because that part of the U.S.A. is after all where the Hillbilly, Rockabilly, Bluegrass, and Blues first fermented. Also because when I started meeting and being around some musicians from the South, I noticed that they not only spoke English differently than do we Northerners, Westerners, and Easterners, but they also even walk differently. And when I played music with some (Bill Pitcock IV from The Dwight Twilley Band, Evan Johns), they played with a feel very different from what I was accustomed too, being a California boy. But now that I think about it, one problem I have with the younger, Alt-Country guys is that they play in a way that feels very much of what I call "suburban". I grew up in and started playing in San Jose, California, which is not really a city, but rather one big suburb, very much like the San Fernando Valley of Southern California (San Jose is in the Santa Clara Valley). Not a city, and not at all rural. I have for years viewed The Swampers as the prime example of the Southern feel in music, but perhaps their style and feel are a result of the rural influence, not the Southern.
In a related matter, whenever the subject of the "best" American songwriters, singers, and musicians comes up, many consider Canadians not eligible for consideration (no Neil Young, Leonard Cohen, Joni Mitchell, or The Band?!). I disagree. Canada is, after all, part of North America. Close enough, ay? And now that the stable genius has declared he wants to make Canada the 51st state, perhaps the matter is moot.
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Did you see my comment about how she defined her sound? "Rock-tinged Country". I hear quite a bit of Rock influence in her music and she has pointed out that Tom Petty and Springsteen are as important to her sound as Classic Country. Having recently bought and listened extensively to three of her CDs, I’d argue there is also an element of Folk present. Yes, some of it sounds more Country than anything else, but the lyrics are more sophisticated than most Country (avoiding the cliches so enamored by Country songwriters) and furthermore, display a notably introspective quality that tends to couch situations in shades of gray, rather than black and white. It’s here, in the lyric writing, that I detect a Folk or singer-songwriter influence. That said, I’m no longer sure it is Americana. In fact, the more I’ve thought about it, the less sure I am about what exactly constitutes Americana. What’s your definition? I'm confused by your mention of Shania Twain. What I've heard by her is stylistically, writing-wise and production-wise, a very long way from Roots genres.
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@stuartk yes I did read it. To be honest, I am no expert in various music genre, I am just an Americana/folk fan. Can’t stand modern country :( To me, Shania Twain is one of the inventor’s of modern country (but she is good. she did it with substance). By now, modern country is a cliche, zero substance, lots of empty "feelings" I mentioned her because when she started, she represented Canada and country at its roots, Then she blasted into pop/rock with a country spirit and it worked very well for her. I love her energy, country girl sweetness and laid-back-ness. I know I am absolutely butchering it but to me country is people playing music to make a living and folk is people singing/making music after work. Which is why country is labored and folk is inherently free spirited. Americana is a grouping but closest to folk. The Be Good Tanyas, one of my favorite bands is classic Americana to me, very acoustic, underproduced, harmony based, lacking elements of popular music and just free/"country liberal" I did butcher it with a lot of non-sense |
Ah. OK. All I’ve heard of Shania Twain is slickly commercial. Apparently, she has a different, rootsier side that I’m unaware of. My bad. FYI, my favorite "Country"singer is EmmyLou Harris, who has always incorporated Folk, Bluegrass, Gospel and Rock into her overall approach.
Interesting. Are you making a pun when you describe music "made to make a living" as labored, or is that just the way your words happened to come out? Personally, I wouldn’t describe any music that’s well performed as "labored". If we’re talking about Country artists such as Willie Nelson, Kris Kristofferson, Ricky Skaggs, Jerry Jeff Walker, Rodney Crowell, Emmy Lou, Radney Foster, Dwight Yoakam or Marty Stuart, they are highly accomplished but definitely don’t sound labored to me. If anything, they make playing and singing seem effortless, a term that is, to my mind at least, fairly close in meaning to free spirited. But perhaps I’ve misunderstood? ? ? For me, Americana is music that lets its deep sources in roots genres -- Country, Blues, Folk, Bluegrass -- show, but does not overtly sound like any one of those influences, in particular. And, is not necessarily acoustic. Lucinda Williams is a great example. Sorry if my response comes across as excessively rigid or professorial. You did warn me about "butchery". I’m perhaps a bit too obsessed with exactitude when it comes to the written word. Trying to write poetry will do that! ;o) |
@stuartk I don't think there is any value in explaining my ignorant and half-informed definitions. By labored I meant more professional, with the goal of selling the product. Folk always felt to me like playing to themselves and their bubble and enjoying it. But of course your examples prove how I make no sense. I studied music theory when I grew up but it was strictly for my country's musical background where there was folk, folk-dance, gipsy, beat, rock, and classical music. (Totally butchering it, my teacher would smash my head with a book) And I totally understand if someone doesn't get Shania. I had a phase and it stuck with me.
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Seems to me you’re being awfully hard on yourself! Thanks for explaining what you meant by "labored". I wouldn’t say you weren’t making any sense. I didn’t understand your use of the word labored. Having said that, there are people who just play for fun and others who attempt to make a living, in both Folk and Country -- at least in the US. In the 50’s/early 60’s there was a heightened popular interest in Folk, which got many people into playing guitar who later went on to play other styles, both as amateurs and professionals. I’ve also studied music theory --up to a point. It’s been very useful for guitar playing. I don’t know why the other guitarists I’ve played with have had zero interest in it. You wrote "for my country’s musical background". I’m curious; what country are you referring to? |
@stuartk it's a sad excuse for a country, but one has no say in where to be delivered. It's that evil money laundering hole for dictators called Hungary. |
@stuartk no I don't, I live in California. I do visit once a year to not be detached from reality |
i classify music as like, dislike, still deciding…… checked discogs my collection… first ten that might fit the discussion; Alison Krauss…i prefer the segment “ Angelic “… Amanda Shires Amos Lee ( Willie sings on it, see also Teatro ) Amy Helm ( currently an only slighter less Angel ) Aoife O’Donovan The Band Blue Rodeo ( see Tremelo ) Bob Marley n the Wailers…checking attention span… Buddy n Julie Miller Dave Rawlings Machine
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I’m 30 minutes North of @grislybutter , unless i take the very Americana….mule |
Steve Earle: "Shania Twain is the highest paid lap dancer in Nashville."
A good joke, but I enjoyed (past tense) Shania for what she was: Pop music with a hint of Country mixed in. Plus production by Mutt Lange, also producer of some AC/DC albums, Graham Parker's Heat Treatment, and Shades in Bed by The Records, all in my collection. Shania is just an entertainer, not an artist (to me at least), so I cut her some slack.
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@tomic601 I thought you measure time/distance as in how far from Stereo Unlimited Btw, I love those vintage audio pics you posted. And I love the Vandies more and more! |
@stuartk that’s a very scenic part of the State with four seasons!. And must be peaceful too. Re "Shania Twain is the highest paid lap dancer in Nashville." That's the sad part. She was practically a kid, waiting tables and singing for money to support her family, they were so dirt poor - before her career took off. So ironically the "poor girl in a broke town lap dancing" cliche may apply. |
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- understandably