I have heard both tables. The Palmer is very good. However, to my ears, the Full spec LP12 Radikal D is at least as good, and depending on one’s musical taste, even better than the Palmer (particularly for jazz).
I think the Origami arm is a good arm, but I don’t think it is really substantially better than the Ekos SE-1. OTOH, I do think what the Radikal brings to the speed accuracy of the Linn, is superior to the speed control of the Palmer. Note, I am biased as I had a choice to do exactly what you are asking about, and my LP12 is still with me...with the upgraded Radikal D.
Listen to both tables if you can, neither are a bad choice, but to my ears, it’s the Linn all the way.
|
@xagwell The Linn protocol is to upgrade from the inside out...so the power supply first, then the sub chassis then the arm and cartridge last.
I replaced my Valhalla with the Radikal D...a huge upgrade! But here’s the thing, like many large improvements, the actual sum of the improvement isn’t that obvious until after a little time has gone by. It is then that you begin to hear the many differences...as more and more LP’s hit the platter! So, IME, the Radikal D brings the following: much greater inner detail, speed accuracy that increases imaging precision and timbre reproduction. Lastly, we have the biggest improvements in my experience....the increase in overall dynamics. This isn’t quite as noticeable until everything else in the system is dialed in. So, if your amps or preamp, or speaker synergy, aren’t up to the task, this aspect will probably go unnoticed!
With a more resolving cartridge as the final step, all of the benefits of the Radikal become even more evident!
You heard a snippet of the reproduction when you went to hear the Radikal, and most likely did not AB against your Lingo at the same time. I believe IF you had done that...and the system was resolving enough, the difference would have been very obvious and as extreme as I am describing!
Linn charges a lot for their Radikal D upgrade, for very good reason IMHO. |
@latenitecity There is a variable here that occurs to me. If you are happy with the sound of the Origami vs the Ekos SE, then I would still go with the Linn platform. However, here is the one thing that I somewhat dislike about the LP12...it locks you into a light weight arm that the old fruit box approves of. This is not the case with the Palmer. As such, if one wanted to go with a super arm...like a Basis Superam9 or a Triplanar etc., then this would be an option with the Palmer...and not with the Linn. Having said that, we are talking of a considerable expenditure over and above the cost of either the Linn arm, or the Origami arm. I utilize a custom WTA ’Black’ arm with Nordost Tyr phono cabling on my Linn. Many folks think this combo easily sees off a Ekos SE! I am not sure about that, but one thing I do know, is that if i wanted to opt for an arm like the one's mentioned above, and were willing to dig into my wallet to do so, then these arms are not an option with this LP12 platform. The biggest drawback IME with the LP12; one that I am ok with based on the superb sound I am getting with this deck, but a drawback nonetheless. Something to perhaps consider. |
@xagwell The Radikal increases the speed accuracy and timing over the Lingo. IME, speed accuracy is going to be more audible than what a better cartridge brings. YMMV. |
@latenitecity. Great post, and so very true. What you heard was a culmination of the various pieces of gear and the room/ your mood at the time. Would this hold for your current room and gear...who knows?
When I heard the Palmer, ( on two different occasions) I wasn’t as impressed as I was expecting to be. Probably because of the hype that the dealer ( who I very much respect) had given it before hand.
Not that the table is bad, just that it really was not better than my experience with the LP12 Magik deck that a friend owns. Again, maybe it was the ancillary gear, also Harbeth ( which btw can sound amazing) or perhaps it was the room..or who knows? Crazy hobby, like you stated.
As we both know, a home audition of the Palmer in your system would probably be an excellent idea, before committing to buy. |
@latenitecity. Happy New Year to you.
I will be interested to learn what your thoughts are on the two tables once you have had a chance to listen to the LP12 Radikal D Klimax. Presumably you will be hearing it with the Ekos SE arm and I would imagine a Kandid cartridge. Hopefully, you will be hearing it with ancillary gear that is comparable to the ancillary gear that the Palmer was utilized with. I am not a huge fan of the Linn electronics or speakers...with the exception of the Klimax DAC.
I think if you heard the Palmer with Harbeths, that those speakers would be an excellent choice to hear the LP12 with as well....I am a pretty big fan of Harbeth speakers.
|
@latenitecity Nice to hear that you have done some listening and included a few options. The Dr.Feickert Woodpecker and Blackbird are nice tables. i would consider them if the Linn wasn't an option. Different sound to a full blown Linn, but one that certainly is very enjoyable, IME.
I would certainly re-listen to the Linn set-up once the Kandid is broken in. |
@viridian I see your point, but I don’t really look at it that way. Instead, I believe that once the Linn is set up correctly, it really is play ready without fuss for extended periods of time. ( so you really don’t need to be visiting your dealer on a regular basis) One doesn’t need to upgrade the table, unless one wants to...and then the upgrades are there. Unlike the nice new Rega Planar 8, wherein what you see is what you get...with no future upgrade ability... unless you completely change the original platform. |
@astewart8944 Your post brings up a very good point. I just noticed that the OP had listened to the top of the line AMG Viella...versus the little Giro, what the OP said with regards to his findings would make some sense if he was talking about the Giro...but not the Viella, imo. Yet, when we notice the cartridge in use on the Viella, that begins to make some sense. Same with the SQ from the Linn and Kandid. The Kandid is not broken in yet, the Ortofon...elicits the kind of sound that the OP heard, but not necessarily the table and arm!
It’s the old saying, a chain is only as strong as it’s weakest link! |
@latenitecity. You bring up a good point about the Harbeths 40.2’s. They are an excellent speaker, but one that is a tad reticent in the very highest frequencies...and they require a large room. If possible, I would think it better if you could listen to any table under consideration in your own system, |
@latenitecity Glad that you made a choice that sounds and works well in your system. I totally understand where you are coming from in your selection. The Blackbird is a very nice TT. I think that there was no wrong answer here. Blackbird, LP12 or even the Palmer are all great TT’s.
|
@jc51373 Now that I own a Linn LP12 Klimax spec model, and having heard a lot of tables since this thread started, all I can say to your post is YMMV. I had the choice of buying a Palmer, a Technics 1000, a Dr Feickert and even a TechDas V Premium ( at considerably more $$). I own the Linn, if that says anything.
Question..when was the last time you heard a current top-flite Klimax LP12...??? It really sounds nothing like your fathers’ ’70 model.
|
@linnlp12 Indeed, the Linn din cable is a weak link. I don't use a Linn arm. ( This is just one of the reasons why). The arm i use has a Van Den Hul litz tonearm cable wired from the cartridge pins straight out to a junction box, there the cable is a Nordost Tyr phono cable going to the preamp. Big improvement on the Linn T Kable.
|
