R2R Ladder DACs or All in One Streamer Solutions

Ya I am calling that one out ... even cheap no name ones from China huh?  Sure.

Why do people make up stories?  Ask any DAC designer (good ones) and they will tell you the implementation, i.e. output stages, power supply, clocks, etc. matter far more than the DAC architecture. Cheap ones from China ... if you are going to tell tales, at least keep them remotely believable.

How did a DAC that was way behind the times 30 years ago (TDA1541) magically become good?

The TDA1541 was in acclaimed CD players in 1987. It's 2020. Those are the same players considered out of date and poor sounding by the 90s. That DAC was in many of the players that gave digital a bad name. Now it's awesome?

Maybe the Orchid is the fake one compared to the 24 bit. The 24 bit likely sounds much closer to the source. That does not mean you will prefer it. Most people prefer "fake".

Classic cars are nice to look at. Put it on the track with something modern and it gets trounced.


Those who claim classic cars are "better" than modern cars are using the same congitive dissonance of those claiming that the TDA1541 magically enabled better DACs 30 years after it became functionally obsolete.

I am making the argument that there is nothing inherently "good" about TDA1541 DACs just that they are the flavor of the month for a subset of the audiophile community.  They DACs they enabled sounded bad 30 years ago. Their performance hasn't changed .... the audiophiles who support them ...

Actually those classic cars do get trounced by modern designs in virtually every aspect. Acceleration, handling, top speed, fuel economy, rel world handling over uneven surfaces. You name it. It's not even close.

A classic car does not get "trounced" by a modern piece of junk. Indeed, it becomes "classic" not just because people are sentimental but because of design.

Look at something as simple as  Tesla Model-3 Dual Motor Performance. There isn't a standard production 911 pre-2010 that can beat it 0-60 or in the quarter mile. Those are relatively modern 911's, never mind Classic. Nothing front engine production even comes close due to lack of traction.

Modern performance production road cars are pushing 1.2g on road rated tires. In 1990, barely old enough to be a classic, the best production car hit 0.94g.

Today's base Mustang with the little 2.3 Ecoboost runs a 5.1 0-60, and with typical incentives that's off the lot for $25K + taxes.  In 2000, only the SVT Cobra could beat it and that was $55000 then, a lot more in today's dollars.

I can't think any measure that cars in the past were superior, except ease of repair, which was good, because you did that a whole lot more.

Correct, RedBook, 16/44, 24/96, or DXD, done with R2R Multibit and done right is "Bit Perfect", where DS (Delta Sigma, 1-Bit, Bit-Stream, Single Bit), is just a facsimile. But it does do DSD, but then there a few discrete R2R Multibit dacs out now that can also do DSD now.

They absolutely are not bit-perfect. They have non-linearities, settling time issues, flicker noise, etc.  They are just simpler to understand than sigma-delta. At the end of the day, all that matters is that the analog waveform that comes out looks like the one that went in.  Getting hung up on data converter architecture is silly unless you specifically want the artifacts that come with that technology.

To me the best Delta Sigma dac chip I’ve heard doing RedBook, was one that used a Delta Sigma Burr Brown dac chip in a YBA Dac and Shanling CD , but it was a Hybrid, having the first 4 bits as multibit but the rest taken over with Delta Sigma, that was the Burr Brown PCM1794 or 94 or 98?

It seems to me that TI (Texas Instruments/Burr Brown) with their later dacs "are coming about face" to R2R again and doing these 4 bit Hybrids, instead of their full Delta Sigma PCM1738 etc, as to do full R2R (eg PCM1702/1704etc) is going back to very high costs again because of the manufacturing of them eg: laser trimming all those R2R resistors.) Where doing 4 bit is not too expensive but gives increased sound quality.

The PCM1738 is a segmented DAC (TI Advanced Segment DAC) as has been probably almost every single IC based sigma delta converter for audio in the last 20 years. Using a multi-bit modulator allows for much better practical implementations of SD audio DACs.

And it was probably a $200 CD player too.

I can be passionate about technical details, but please understand I absolutely think personal preference (our ears) are the most important. It does not matter what I think or link, it matters what you like. However, I think it is important not to get caught up in the flavor of the month and let the "masses", or perhaps it is the "crowd" decide what currently you should "like".  That is why I point out that it was not too long ago that DACs based on the 1541 were not considered good, but suddenly they are again. Which is not to say you don't love your DAC, because you obviously do.  If I had to guess, it has little to do with the 1541, and a lot to do with the overall design, warts and all. Warts are good in audio.  We are working very hard to add warts to recorded music these days. People like warts.

jbmac7594 posts11-08-2020 8:52pmOk, do not know now? Was kind of liking my tubed MHDT Orchid. Maybe I should like? Maybe I should not? My ears are still deciding, for 4 months now. So far it is one of my favorites. My ears will decide. Enjoy!

Even "cheap" no name Chinese DACs.  There was never anything remotely racist in what I said. Stop dog whistling to hide you lie. By using the comment "cheap no name Chinese DAC" you are showing yourself to be the real racist. I will go out on a limb and say I have far far more experience dealing with Chinese companies that you ever will. 你说的任何语言都不诚实