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Have you actually heard them? I would bet that you haven't. If you heard them and didn't like them or they weren't to your taste that would be one thing. Other than that why would you bash something you haven't heard? Do you have an ax to grind or am I missing something? |
Not the speakers, the marketing of upgrades in general. You've commented twice on different forums protecting BP (never attacked) as a (talented designer) and describing the speakers as a "masterpiece", which I'm sure you're eminently qualified to discern. The original target was Audioquest, which you overlooked. It's becoming a trend, and one open to question. I'm done. |
as i can see it mt, you have both posted twice on two different forums, both responding to each others post. imho, i cannot see how your original post was about a wire product as it was in the speaker forum and in a merlin string. imho the comments were anything but fair or kind. very few speakers are manufactured for 19 years and to have 6 upgrades during that time is not a lot imo. certainly not when compaired to to cars or computers as i mentioned. and unlike those i make my revisions available to the owners of older designs. yes some products never change but unless it is made under contract as a specific entity ensuring the quality and character like some bbc design's, why stay with an older design when things are progressing so quickly. jmtc of course. and as far as products being made right from the get go, even manufacturers who do not mention upgrading, do it to stay competative. as far as allan being "eminently qualified"? well let me say he is in the sound and video business so he is at least as qualified as you are to have an opinion. i have also seen him at many shows so he is constantly looking at what is available and has considerable knowledge.
i can see your point about upgrades in general but think that you would have made a stronger case with a little bit of balance and grace.
bobby at merlin |
Good morning Bobby. Opinions have questionable value. Both Allan and I are entitled to have them equally. People often take dissenting opinions personally (as do you and your minions) and embrace supporting opinions as gospel (as do the protectors of the Merlin throne). It's unfortunate that the feelings of the Merlin contingent were injured. If you and your believers are going to dismiss anyone who questions any aspect of the Merlin empire, why the need to defend yourselves? I never questioned you or the speakers directly as I've only heard one of the iterations of them at a friend's home. In fact, I praised you and your customer service on these forums. Internet forums and keyboard conversations seldom result in accurate meanings or intent. If ever, you drive through my neighborhood, you would be welcome to visit, listen to my humble system (critique it if you choose) and engage in a pleasant conversation. |
mt, as i said, balance and grace. if they are used this sort of this would not happen. but when an individual takes the time to tell his fellow listeners what he has found, and you respond like you did in the other forum and post "hook, line and sinker" here, it should not surprize you that feelings got hurt. allan's objection had merit because you have not heard the speaker in question and took the discussion of topic. since that is the plan of choice for a few, frustration set in. what you implied had some valid aspects but would have made a stronger case put in reasonable manner. i agree with you about keyboard conversations, that is why we all need to be more agreeable.
bobby at merlin |
Bobby, I appreciate all you've said. However, as reasonable as we think are being, far too many people live in a defensive world. The soundstage of perception becomes constricted. Being more agreeable doesn't change this. If you didn't question, the upgrades which make your speakers better each time would not exist. When people don't challenge and question we end up with an economy which prohibits many of us from being able to afford your fine products. |
presenting your side in a manner that does not offend does not take a lot of effort, mt. and you are certainly eloquent enough to do so. being costic or sarcastic is not necessary to make a point. simply questioning an issue will result in a reasonable response even from us merlin heads. :-) what goes around comes around.
bobby at merlin |
Anyone who has been around at all knows that some things are real and some are more just marketing. Its important to be able to determine how much of each in each case.
THe "hook line and sinker" marketing focused comment provided some initial balance to the OPs observations. Nothing wrong with that. Anyone who appears to drink whatever Kool Aid too willingly is bound to be challenged. Its a good thing. That leads to balanced discussion where the facts tend to come out faster over time. |
Well, I'd leave it up to Mt to defend his style if he sees a need. I'm merely defending the right to comment as one sees fit.
FWIW, Bobby, I think you were quite civil in your response! |
m, i have fought a lot of battles over over the years and have learned a lot from doing so. being costic and sarcastic will simply get a response in kind and ignite the converstion taking it more off topic. being reasonable and a gentleman will get you more from more people.
bobby at merlin |
Political correctness or attempting to account for EVERYONE'S feelings before speaking is, generally both, insincere and impossible. People are offended because they want to be. It's simply another attempt to control someone else's message, as is announcing displeasure at perceived caustic or sarcastic comments. People always have the option of changing the channel. People have lost touch with content and now focus on context. This personalizes the message and negates the opportunity to see someone else's point of view. Thank you Mapman. |
Eloquent, huh? But no manners...I guess school doesn't teach the right stuff. Anyway, I'm too old to change now. Well, maybe if I became a Merlin head :-)
Hey Map, how's them nuckles? |
mt, i think you are too far gone to become a merlin head. you don't like change, you don't want to spend excessive amounts of money, the extensive naturalization process is very taxing and then there is the vast amount of kool-aid you would have to drink. better stay just as you are.
btw, it is best to wear gloves or brass knuckles to protect the hands boys. i have some spares. want them?
mt, you made me realize that was wrong about one thing. how i spelled caustic.
bobby at merlin |
I wish this board were restricted to people who have actually heard speakers and can comment on them based on their experience. That would be much more valuable to me and this whole thread would not be taking place. |
And when Bobby defended you before, I bought it. Now it's "I wish" and "valuable to me". News flash: the world doesn't revolve around you. Could you be more self-centered? Humorless, crybabies are the problem with these forums. I hope this is understood, both, in context and content. |
I'm not being self centered at all. I wish there could be a forum in addition to what's here and at Asylum that's more specific to my needs and I suspect a lot of others. I guess I should have been clearer. My apologies for that. |
I'm all for additional forums which cater to specific audio beliefs. Allan, you struck a nerve. I thought I had closed the book on this thread on a friendly note, then another misunderstanding. Jeez I dislike the Internet at times. |
Aw bobby, you were being sarcastic weren't you? See wasn't that fun? |
Yes it was. Sorry u taught me 2 things. Going to Denver? |
IT brings tears to my chimp-like eyes to see Bobby and a Merlin critic seeming to have fun together..... |
Good luck. Mccormack is a very reasonable choice.
My strategy is always to listen a lot and listen to the best whenever possible, then buy what I can afford. |
Sorry, I wish I was going to Denver. I'd love to meet you in person and have a chance to hear the speakers at length (as much as possible). My family vacation starts next week going to Montana over the 4th. |
mt, i would certainly take you out for dinner and a blueberry cobler at a local haunt. then you would surely be a merlin head...even if you didn't like my work. for the holiday staying home with my improving wife and our horses. may even work a bit, i enjoy it more and more.
mapman, i am a little older and do not fight to the death any longer. there was a time for that but even then, i knew there was no way to make all like or understand what i do. all i ever asked was for you to be open minded.
best,
bobby at merlin |
Bobby, thank you for the generous invitation. Denver's on the list. This trip to Montana with my wife and two teenagers is to go back home for them, they were all born in Missoula. I was born and raised in San Diego (the first 40 years). So, maybe if we travel back to my hometown we'll o through Denver. You just never know. If ever you drive to Chicago down I-80 you'll come right through the Quad Cities and would be welcome here. I hope you wife is okay. We miss our horses. |
mt, we have two tb's, 6 and 10 years old. now taking flat work lessons and enjoying the hell out of it. been riding, raced and hunted for decades, now i am learning how to ride and not make my horse sore. :-) karen is better and with a little continued luck will manage her illness. thanks for the kindness.
bobby |
mt, i meant denver for the show.
i am in ny.
bobby |
Thanks for clarifying my geographical confusion. Denver and horses just seemed like a natural assumption. Our experience has been with Quarter horses. We still have a lots of tack, no horses but 4 saddles and tack. Maybe we'll get to ride again while on vacation. Enjoy.
David |
