"High Emotion Audio"
The name would seem to imply that!
How about Shindo speakers that also use field coil technology drivers?
Wide dispersion and very good sensitivity and dynamics would seem to be two common traits in this category. |
In my system, issues with massed strings were one of my last lingering banes and had always been more associated with digital sources than analogue.
This was not necessarily due to digital source alone. It took a combo of a DAC and pre-amp change to resolve it. |
Its not hard to try to squeeze too large a system or too much sound into a typical listening room, which is much tighter quarters than most concert halls. In this scenario, it is not hard for dynamics or other sonic attributes of any system to have an edge or whatever you might call it when something sneaks up on you too quickly with no advance warning in tight quarters. If that occurs and bothers you, then your system might benefit from some "rightsizing" of it to the room it must operate in. |
Spin a good recording of Mahler's 3rd Symphony as an emotional acid test for your system.
if all is well, you should at various points be frightened, relaxed and experience a gamut of various other emotional reactions as well. |
Axel,
You have to listen to the whole work from start to finish for proper effect, so give yourself some time, it is LONG, about two hours or so (Mahler's longest symphony I believe), but well worth the investment!
I may do the same tonight as well.
It has a strangely theraputic yet unsettling, mesmerizing and numbing effect on me. When finished, you have a lot to think about! |
This generally well regarded version conducted by Bernstein is the commonly available recording on CD that I am most comfortable with and have recommended to others.
http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Symphony-No-3-Lieder/dp/B00000JQGV
Others more knowledgeable regarding Mahler recordings here might be able to make more educated recommendations than I.
BTW the one I personally like best that I have heard (it was the first I ever heard this work so I may be biased) is a live radio performance I recorded to VHS hifi tape years ago. I still have it...will need to break it out though I currently have no way to play it on my main system. |
"It is NOT just superior 'clarity', it's some form of unnatural 'emphasis',"
Often its just the way something is recorded which is seldom the same as listening live. Its difficult to equate the two. |
How about "pleasing" sound quality?
For me I might listen to 10 different systems that all sound different yet find each one "pleasing".
Bottom line for me is if it sounds "pleasing" to me I like it enough that I am anxious to spend time listening to it as opposed to having to disregard "fright" and force myself to listen. |
Axel,
I did get through the entire Mahler's 3rd over the last couple days.
Unfortunately this particular lp set is perhaps one of the worst classical recordings in my collection however. An orchestra from eastern Europe I am unfamiliar with on a one-off label I am not familiar with as well.
The recording sounds like something recorded in the 1940's mastered for playback over early TV, very distant sounding with poor mix, response and dynamics and not a particularly insightful performance.
Oh well, it is what it is ( a budget binner picked up years ago) but luckily enough was presented to enable me to still enjoy what I heard, though I know it was sorely lacking compared to other recordings out there. I do need to pick up a new copy of another version I have heard and enjoyed, like the early Bernstein one.
The recording I have on VHS hifi tape off public radio that exposed me to this work was performed by the Oslo Philharmonic and really registered with me. |
"Real life sounds are dynamic and could frighten you if they were to happen silence to loud, especially when you were not expecting."
Yep.
Examples: bombs detonating, thunder storms, tympanis and other percussive instruments including pianos.
If the system reproduces these somewhat accurately without audible distortion or breakup on a good recording then that is probably a good place to be! |
Cdc,
I certainly cannot speak for Atmasphere, but I suspect Ralph was referring to the S series High Emotion models that appear to use their unique wide dispersion tweeter technology.
I think OHMs are most likely a different beast from the High Emotion design in terms of high power, high current SS power amplification being needed to produce best results with the OHMs.
I suspect the High Emotion S series speak's impedance curves are more friendly to tube amplifiers than is OHMs if Ralph recommends these for use with his amps.
Also the HEs appear to require a separate sub-woofer to go truly full range which ups the price for full range performance whereas the larger OHM Walsh speaks do this pretty well on their own without a sub. |
CDC asked :
:Question is, will the micro talls (my room is 13' x 15') run on only 22 wpc? How about a 50 wpc gainclone?"
They'll "run" and probaly sound OK, depending how loud you listen, but probably not reach full potential in regards to realism in the low end.
50-80 watts into 8 ohm largely doubling into 4ohm would be more like it for best results. |
If at all, you have to experience the whole chain to find out if you're comfortable or not. Not so?"
I'd say so. |
I think one key to good phase/time alignment is that drivers can overcome inertia and react fast to even very subtle signal changes.
The High Emotion line mentioned by Atmasphere appears to have a significant design focus on this.
Other champs in this area that I personally have direct experience with that are affordable are certain affordable models from Triangle.
OHM Walsh speakers are pretty good in this regard also IMHO.
I'm sure there are others from what I have heard in showrooms but I am less certain of the design focus with these. PSB in the more moderate cost range and mbl and Magico in the uper echelons are two others that come to mind. |
Yes!
Thanks once again Atmasphere for keeping this conversation grounded in an objective test process that can be tested rather than in random subjective observations! |
"I think the one other MOST important item, other than phase/time is just some sizeable membrane area to get some 'SCALE'. "
Good point.
This is another area where the unique radiation pattern of a Walsh driver, like those used in the OHMs over the years, starting with the F and A, have a distinct advantage in terms of delivering music on a large scale from a modest sized driver.
I.e., there is a mush larger effective radiation area in play with a Walsh driver than a similar diameter conventional driver.
They are also omnidirectional and largely phase coherent. A nice combo in the context of this particular discussion! |
"if you can be so taken with an illusion , more power to you. especially with orchestral music, the diffference between real and recorded is great indeed. it may be mind over matter, again"
We all have our illusions, and you have reality.
May you find your way as pleasant...... |
Semantics are important in science and engineering but alone fall way short when it comes to accurately describing the nature of what one hears. Semantics of spoken language might be capable of relating enough to describe a general type of sound, but not the fine details that make most of the different between one good playback system and another. The translation from ears to language is a lossy one. |
Mr T.:
Somehow I was under the impression from your prior posts that you were content with a portable boom box for a system because you had correctly deducted that all systems were imperfect anyhow so it didn't matter?
Or was it that systems that were imperfect must be sterilized?
"I am NOMAD. That which is imperfect must be steriziled!
Sterilize! Sterilize!"
I feel so much better now knowing you actually have what seems to be a pretty nice sounding setup!
As you know it is still imperfect however and unfortunately will still have to be sterilized!
Dang that smalltalk...just can't trust it!
...but that's just my opinion. |
"Only a speaker that does MOST EVERYTHING extremely well, can cause this sort of problem -- it is a phasing/timing related issue and mostly becomes 'unpleasant' uneasy, unsettling, all the stuff I been going on about, if massed instruments e.g. full orchestra and such are played.
He said a lot more, but I'll keep it short lest I be remanded of pushing some agenda."
Hmm, I tend to think that line level source electronics and pre-amp are more likely the cause of uneasiness in more cases like this than the speakers, but that's just my own personal observation. |
"Mapman, what about Ohm speakers? Do they deliver?"
Yeah, I would say so.
They are not horns nor do they utilize field coil technology drivers, nor might I be able to afford them if they did.
Feed them sufficient power and current though and they definitely "deliver", at least IMHO.
They are mostly relaxing in that the omni design does not blast sound at you perhaps as much as more directional designs. They tend to fill the room with sound more instead. They have "startled" me on occasion when the recording demanded, but I would stop short of saying the sound has ever been "frightening".
Perhaps with a 250 w/ch or more monster or Class D amp they might start to become "frightening" on more occasions based on what I have read from others.
The latest and greatest drivers in the OHMS announced first towards the end of last year supposedly use all new driver components including more powerful magnets which is said to increase efficiency and reduce power demands. |
Nope, haven;t heard the "latest and greatest".
Latest for sure.
Greatest? Technical improvements on paper seemingly but I haven't heard them so I can't offer an opinion. It's always a matter of opinion I suppose in any case.
Supposedly more efficient and improved in some ways according to the info released on the OHM site.
.
That's about as much as I know about the new gen drivers.
Here is what is said about the new drivers on the OHm site:
"NextGen Walsh Driver Available
The new Walsh 5000 driver is in production! This is the Next Generation of the Walsh 5-S3 driver and can be used to upgrade Ohm Fs as well as the Walsh 4,
Walsh 5 and Walsh 300 families of speakers.
What is the difference? Physically: almost everything changed except the perforated metal can and the cloth dome super tweeter. The main inverted driver has a new cast chassis, new neodymium magnet structure, new voice coil, new cone, and new surround (not foam anymore). Sonically: evolutionary - not revolutionary - changes. You'll enjoy the same super wide sweet-sweep, the same deep, clean bass (mostly cabinet dependent) and the same extended, sweet treble to beyond 20,000 Hz (mostly super-tweeter dependent). You still have the controls to match the speaker to your listening room. The improvements include slightly higher sensitivity to reduce the demand from your amplifier, longer linear excursion for lower distortion, smoother mids for more intelligible, lifelike voices and better micro-dynamics for finer inner details with more precise imaging. All these audible changes can be heard during our 120-Day Home Trial." |
"So you take a recording you know and THEN go listen to this on a system such as I'm on about and see what happens."
With my current system, I can't think of any recordings that I have that are inherently "frightening" merely as a result of the way they are recorded. That has not always been the case though with some prior incarnations.
Artificial sounding? Yes. Less than perfect? For sure.
But IMHO, a recording is what it is. Most you care about are listenable I find once you accept the fact that some are inherently very good and some are way less than perfect or what you might like them to be.
No reason to listen to bad music on a bad recording now though is there?
With good music however, I find the recording seldom is a show stopper for me, unless the record, tape, CD or whatever is physically defective or damapged in some way.
Of course, also, it is not necessarily easy or cheap to assemble a system that is pleasing with most recordings.
Also, in the spirit of Mr T., I agree some might find an inherently poor, artificial or even mildly deficient recording to be "frightening" and some not since "frighten" describes an emotional reaction that will vary greatly from person to person. |
