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Questions for Vandersteen 5A owners...

I finally got to audition 5A's yesterday. Involved 9 hours of driving, but it was worth it. :-)

I realize no speaker is perfect and it's a matter of tradeoffs. I am attracted to Vandersteen because of a strong reputation and the fact that it includes a powered bass module with 11 bands of EQ per speaker. I have a troublesome room. Currently have Aerial model 9s - a great speaker but not ideal for my room.

Anyway, I wanted to post my impressions and see what owners have to say.

1) Larger than life sound. Holy big imagery. High hats sounded like they were 3 feet in diameter.

2) Wide dispersion of sound (i.e. large sweetspot). Vocals stretched from speaker to speaker. Panning of instruments off center was hard to pinpoint.

3) Bass seemed EQd well (couldn't hear any notes being louder than others) but all in all it wasn't as articulate as I expected. Bass was very fat sounding.

4) Problem at loud volumes? It might have been the 200 watt amp, but when the volume was cranked it was very distorted. I notice that Stereophile recommends the speaker but says "won't play as loud as other speakers". I have never experienced a speaker that had a volume limitation per se, so I'm not sure what to expect - distortion or were they simply meaning it wasn't very sensitive? I don't listen to music at crazy volumes, but these would also be used for home theater - where speakers should be able to handle loud peaks. Have any of you noticed this?

5) A lot brighter than I expected and very revealing. Highs sounded less smooth/laid back than I expected (or was used to for that matter). Almost harsh at times. Could have been the recordings, but I played stuff I was very familiar with so I'm puzzled here.

6) Midrange was very nice.

Anyhow, I'm interested in others' perceptions here as I can't audition these in my own home. I do believe that the dealer could set up the bass well in my room, but am generally worried about some of the points above.

Thanks in advance.
madfloyd

Showing 7 responses by zargon

zargon's avatar
zargon
453 posts
 
Madfloyd, I have owned the 5As for several years and have had them set up in two different rooms using ARC tube equipment. I have also assisted friends and associates in the setups of several other 5A/room combinations, some including 2 channel and home theater, with a variety of SS and tube equipment.

What I have experienced is that when you get the room right, and when using appropriate electronics and well recorded source material, these speakers dissappear and create a high, wide, and deep sound stage with a uniquely holographic image. They have a very realistic sound over a wide dynamic range and play louder than you would ever need with no hint of distortion.

Locations of instruments are precise, for example down to inches when hearing the finger plucking a string. The bass is solid, tight and tuneful, and the mids, especially vocals, are extremely realistic and beautifully presented. Highs are delicate and precise with no sense of harshness or distortion. The entire spectrum is very well integrated and cohesive.

As to your observations above, when I hear "fat" sounding bass, it is usually the room contribution and this can not be totally eliminated with the EQ controls alone. Distortion at high volumes can come from a number of sources including electronics and media, however, the use of the high pass filter between the preamp and amp reduces the power demands on the amp and makes these speakers quite easy to drive. My ears are also very sensitive to any high end shrill, etchiness, or distortion and I can listen to these speakers for hours with no fatique.

Obviously, I am sold on the 5As and would highly recommend them. The engineering advancements and workmanship of these speakers is quite astounding. I would also welcome you to visit and listen for yourself if you are in my area. Feel free to email for more information as well.

PS, I am just a passionate audiophile, and not in the audio business.
zargon's avatar
zargon
453 posts
 
A number of you have mentioned the importance of set up. It takes patience and care, but I agree it does not require a dealer. I observed a well known dealer set up the sub EQs on a pair of 5As and he spent less than 30 minutes! Clearly he was running a business and time is money, but it was not nearly as carefully done as one would have expected. It can be accomplished quite easily with a RS meter and some simple instructions, so don't be afraid to plan on doing it yourself.

I have learned a few tricks that refine the overall placement and inprove the imaging that aren't in the manual as well. One involves a slighty different approach to ensuring the speakers are exactly vertical and aligned to each other which doesn't assume the floor is perfectly level under both speakers. This seems to be critical for a time and phase aligned system and the manual does not emphsize it as much as I think it deserves.

If anyone is interested, I will describe it and post it here a bit later today when I get some time.
zargon's avatar
zargon
453 posts
 
Madfloyd,

Here are two things to pay extra attention to when setting up the 5As. They probably apply to a large extent to any speaker setup, but I found they are especially important when setting up the 5As.

1. To get maximum benefit from the time alignment, these speakers need to be vertically parallel to each other, both side to side and front to back. Even small errors can cause readily discernable variation in the image as you move your head around.

Don't assume that the speakers are vertical just because they are on 3 cones resting on the carpet/floor. Tighten the cones, remove the grill top, and level front to back and side to side by readjusting the cones. You might be surprized at the amount of adjustment needed.

2. To maximize the phase integration in the image, these speakers need to be the same distance from front and side walls, and have the same toe in. Minimizing variation in these distances, while unavoidable in unsymetrical rooms, adds to image clarity and depth.

A small lasor is very helpful for setting toe in. Measure and place some tape on the back wall where you want each speaker to be aimed, and use the lasor to get a precise alignment.

These are refinements and you can do them after finding the preferred location of the speakers and getting familiar with the image and sound. They are good rainy day afternoon tweeks that will bring satifying results.
zargon's avatar
zargon
453 posts
 
Chadlinz,

WRT toe-in, I agree that in large rooms (>18 ft wide) it is not necessary nor advisable to toe these speakers in. They image best straight ahead. However, at CES Richard regularily uses some toe-in in the hotel rooms which run more like 14-15 ft wide. He only recommends it to reduce the side wall first order reflection.

Interestingly, he has be come a proponant of diffusion on side and front walls as well. I like the use of diffusion, but I have found that diffusion works best when the sound wave strikes it near head on at a distance (>4 ft), something that is not possible when used in a narrower room on the side wall.
zargon's avatar
zargon
453 posts
 
Sonofjim,
One additional tid bit I learned from Richard about the new 7As which hasn't been mentioned. The midrange cone is formed from balsa (by turning it on a lathe), and is then reinforced with carbon fiber. This forms a kind of truss which is very light, yet very stiff. It has the properties of being more "pistonic", e.g. responding quickly, having less troublesome breakup modes, and being internally better damped when breakup does occur. As I understand it, this midrange is one of the upgrades that would be available to original 5A owners. Seems like this has the potential of being quite noticable.
zargon's avatar
zargon
453 posts
 
Mrjstark,

Richard told me that based on some recent experiences with room-challenging dealer set ups of the 5As, he is stongly considering including the rear firing tweeter on the 7. As you indicated, he felt it was critical when dealing with overly damped rooms. Although most of us probably don't use it, when it is needed it would be a shame not to have it, especially at this price.

While not fully consistent with a point source time/phase speaker, its contribution is not too different from the attenuated time/phase delay of the first reflection off the front wall in a live room. It adds presence and a larger sense of space.

I agree with the idea of a Vandy 7 thread.
zargon's avatar
zargon
453 posts
 
I have heard many wonderful sounding 5A setups, but the ones that got my attention the most were using all ARC. Randy Cooley of Optimal Enchantment in Santa Monica, CA, has been selling Vandies of all breeds with ARC for years and at one time was the world's largest ARC/Vandersteen dealer. If you are near there, go take a listen.

Pair the Ref 3 with a good ARC tube amp and you have a system to die for with a midrange that puts you in heaven. I think I'll go downstairs and fire mine up just thinking about it.
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