Really appreciate all the feedback so far.
@erik_squires , Thanks for that clarification. That is a good point
@mesch, You are right, I was asking about an Integrated but with all the great feedback, now I am also considering adding an amp versus a whole new integrated.
I emailed AVA and Frank responded. I was inquiring about their SET 400 Amp and if he thinks it would be a good match for my speakers.
Frank actually recommended their SET 120 instead of the 400. So I am considering that also now and of course it is much less expensive so that is a plus.
The SET 400 is out of stock right now but Frank mentioned that they are working on a whole new chassis and that is going to take another month or so. Looking forward to see what they produce.
With all the feedback and now also seriously considering AVA Products with their great review and still being very curious about the Sugden, as suggested earlier in the thread, I am going to see if I can get a demo at the dealer that I mentioned and I need to inquire about their return policy.
What I may do, is purchase the A21 and the SET 120 and then compare in home to see what I like better. If the A21 comes out on top and I really like it, I would have to return the SET 120 within their 30 day trial period and I might just go back to the local dealer and exchange the A21 for the A21se.
Those are my thoughts right now.
At the end, I have to be happy with I buy and be content with it.
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@mesch , as far as AVA HiFi is concerned, I would consider the AMP, not the Integrated or Control Amplifier as they call it.
Either the SET 400 or SET 120 Amps with the Vincent functioning as a Pre-Amp, I think it would make a good combo. As you stated about your previous SV-236, I really would hate to give up my Vincent. It certainly is a sweet sounding unit.
But if I decide on the Sugden, then no, choice, I would have to let it go.
For my sources, I have an external DAC (Queststyle CMA400i), MoFi Studio Deck TT with a Hana SL MC Cart and a Technics SL-G700 SACD Player. So I feel my sources are pretty decent.
Yea, I am not in a rush, need to make sure I get the right unit.
@blackfly , I've never heard the Luxman's but I can imagine they must be awesome, especially the 590 that you refer to. Just way out of budget though. But they are beautiful for sure.
But you stated, I really want to hear what Class A is all about, Hopefully Soon.
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Thanks for the recommendations.
Luxman will probably be out of my budget unfortunately, as beautiful as they are.
@gdnrbob , yes, you are right. I guess I won't know until I try it. Of course I hope it sounds good.
Cary Audio looks nice too but still above budget.
Unless I can find these units around $3K or under, probably won't work for me.
I think so far, the Sugden might be a good candidate.
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The Speakers that I have are Martin Logan Motion 40’s and they are rated at 92db sensitivity.
With the Vincent, I think they sound great.
From what I have read and watched, 92db should be sensitive enough for lower wattage amps but I am realistic, I know with some lower wattage amps and Class A, I may get beautiful mid-range but lack in the bass department a bit.
But I am not hung up on huge bass so maybe wouldn’t be a big deal.
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@audioguy85 A dealer in Irvine, CA is selling the A21 for $2400 actually (my mistake). That’s the one that I was referring to. The A21se, they sell for $3250 as you mentioned.
@cakyol The Schitt Aegir does look interesting. I looked into it a little bit. Seems like two use the Aegir as mono’s, you need to use the balanced input and my Vincent does not have Balanced outputs.
Also, according to reviews I read, when used as mono’s, you have to be connected to 8-ohm speakers although I saw a review by New Record Day on YT and he had them connected to 4-ohm speakers but I guess it’s not official by Schitt.
And Class A is for the first 10 watts and after that it goes into it’s "Continuity" Technology which is supposed to still sound close to Class A.
But as I said, it does look like an interesting option.
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@yyzsantabarbara , you mentioned Parasound. I was actually thinking about Parasound also but maybe the A23+. If the A21+ puts out 6 watts in Class A then the A23+ might be half that or something, I am not sure.
But I suppose it could still sound good. Overall seems to get good reviews.
The one thing I am confused about these types of amps is, at what point or volume, does it switch to AB from A.
With the Parasound, if I listen in low volumes, am I pretty much staying within Class A territory?
The Krell, as I said before, might be out of my budget but I will keep a eye out. But I have to say one thing (don't hate me for it, haha) but at least from the pics, the aesthetics do not look that attractive). I know, I shouldn't go on looks but performance.
The Nelson Pass First Watts might be an option to.
Damn, so many good choices.
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Just came across this Amp: Vision SET 400 Amplifier
Any opinions on it? So far the reviews I read seem positive.
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@ronald8 , my speakers are 92db.
That is one thing that I am afraid of, that I acquire a Class A device like the Sugden but don't really hear a significant difference from what I have now (at least in my system).
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I have Martin Logan Motion 40's, 4-ohm and 92db sensitive.
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So I went to the local dealer today that I mentioned earlier to hear the Sugden.
He only had the A21S available to hear.
It sounded good but of course how it will sound in my system would be different.
He had it hooked up to a HiFi Rose and Klipsch Heresy's (I believe).
If he had the A21SE in stock, I might have actually bought it today.
But he states it's $3700 and he can order it.
I can understand with the current way things are, that prices can go up but I can't do $3700. I would have gone for it at the $3250 prices that I have seen.
I figure since I am willing to spend the money and if I want Sugden, then I want to get the A21SE and not settle for the A21S (which in no way is a bad unit) but I don't want to feel that I settled later.
So the journey continues.
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Well Folks, I did it, I done did it.
As mentioned earlier, I had heard the A21 yesterday at a local dealer but he didn’t have the A21SE in stock and his price was too much for me.
So I came home and searched around and found a dealer in TX selling through eBay.
Well I took the chance and bought it!
The A21SE should be arriving around 2/23. The dealer offers 30 day returns.
Looking forward to this Amp.
As I mentioned before, my speaker are 92db sensitive (at least according to the Martin Logan), so I am hoping it will be a good match.
@mesch , I have a external dedicated DAC, the Questyle CMA400i, which I feel is a really nice piece.
Once the amp gets here, of course I will be comparing to my Vincent. I am really hoping it’s going to be on another level then the Vincent.
I will let you know how it goes.
I really appreciate all the feedback.
Any owners of Sugden Amps, please also chime in.
Thanks
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I contacted Tone Import (the official distributor for Sugden in the US) to inquire about official dealers, I was just curios.
So I am awaiting their reply but they did inform me that the price for the A21SE is now $3750.
$500 jump from the previous $3250. So the audio dealer that I had visited over the weekend was correct, the price has gone up.
Darn economy, supply chain and inflation, ha.
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So I got the Sugden in and listened to just a few tracks last nite before I had to go to bed.
Question about the speaker posts on the amp. So I haven't come across the type of speaker posts that the Sugden has before.
There seems to be a a ring that you can loosen to accept spades and if you are not using spades, I suppose you tighten up. But right behind that ring, there seems to be another piece that turns (which accommodates banana plugs).
At first, it seemed liked I couldn't insert my speaker wires (Audioquest Type 4 Banana) but turn that piece (as if I was unscrewing it), now speaker wires seem to be able to go in.
I assuming that is so for different sizes of banana wires?
I'll have to inspect more. Fortunately, headed into a 3 day weekend, so I should be able to spend some time with amp now.
But wanted to get anyone's feedback on the type of speaker posts/jacks that Sugden has (if you have any experience with it).
Thnx
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Wow, this is great!
Thanks so much for this.
I really appreciate it.
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Well, I thought I would post an update.
I received the Sugden A21se a few weeks ago and have been listening to it whenever I get a moment. The only times I really can listen wholeheartedly is in the late evenings when the wife goes to bed and things outside settle down (unfortunately I have some noisy streets) and even then, the weekends are really the best time for me to listen.
So far, I don't notice a huge difference between the Sugden and my Vincent. But I would say that is probably because of the rest of the equipment. Perhaps if the Sugden had better equipment to play with, it could shine even more.
Right now it feels like, if both were considered sport cars, perhaps the Sugden would be ahead but if you looked in the rear view mirror, the Vincent is not too far behind.
It's probably too early to tell. I need to spend more time with it.
In no way, does it sound bad. I think certain tracks whether digital or vinyl have caught my attention but need more time.
Now, I am thinking I want to use both amps. I may purchase a quality switchbox. I have contacted Decware and Mapletree regarding their offerings.
So that is my quick update for now.
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@mesch
I did list some of my components earlier in the thread but here is what I am working with:
- Martin Logan Motion 40 Speakers
- MoFi Studio Deck TT w/Hana SL MC
- Questyle CMA400i DAC
- Playing with 2 different phono pre-amps at the moment (Moon 110lp V2 and Jolida JD9 MK II)
- Technics SL-G700 SACD
- Windows PC used for Streaming (Qobuz) and Library of music (Flac, DSD) using Jriver
My room is about: 20' x 11' Cathedral Style Ceilings
The reason I mentioned the switch is because I really like my Vincent too and would like to utilize it sometimes.
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@mesch
Yes, you are correct, that is what I will need to do. Spend quality time with it and get a good sense of what it can do and then compare back to the Vincent.
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