2. digital
  3. 153675-1830

PSA: Be Careful Dealing With Uptone Audio

Just a cautionary note for anyone wishing to purchase anything from Uptone Audio.

 

Over the past 3 or so years I have owned an ISO Regen, two LPS 1’s and two LPS 1.2’s. When they work they are OK. However, when they do not, you cannot really count on any meaningful support from Uptone Audio – under warranty or not – and even more so if you are not in the US. One of my LPS 1’s failed during the warranty period after less than a year of use. It would not output anything. I contacted Alex Crespi of Uptone who arranged for a replacement. I shipped the faulty LPS 1 back (costly). I received a replacement in about a month. The replacement I received had dings on the case that were not there in the first place. I just chalked it up to shipping issues. Two months later, the replaced unit failed again. It would not light up. It had more than a year left under warranty. I contacted Uptone again who requested I ship it back again for replacement. However, they discouraged it and proposed a credit of US$185 towards the purchase of a new LPS 1.2 in lieu of the warranty on the unit which faltered so quickly after it was replaced. Upon further questioning and correspondence with Uptone, it came to light that they had not repaired the unit I had sent in for warranty replacement with new parts. Instead they had replaced the board with parts culled from used and returned units previously sent in for trade in or repair purposes. In short, the warranty is tantamount to having your unit replaced with a used one which may or may not have been faulty in the first place, which they claim to have “tested”. It is no surprise that the unit faltered so quickly after their supposed warranty replacement then. As such, their so-called warranty replacement is pretty much flawed. Alex got defensive and quoted some self-derived metric about the failure rates of their products being extremely low and put the cause of successive failure in my units down to my bad luck. He also said that I had electrically damaged the unit which is baffling since I had used it only with their supplied OEM Meanwell switching power supply which still works fine up till today. To date, in the last 20 or so years of being in the hi fi hobby, these Uptone products are the only ones to have malfunctioned so badly.

 

Wishing to cut my losses and to avoid having to ship the faulty unit back to the US at costly charges when the “warranty” replacement would most likely fail again shortly, I paid the remainder towards a brand new LPS 1.2. Alex made it clear that he would not assist with repair of the faulty LPS 1 and I disposed of it.

 

I received a shipment of the LPS 1.2. However, when I unpacked it, the unit had a clear rattling noise when removed from the box. Upon closer inspection, there was a slight scratch on the front chassis plate and the screws were badly stripped. It was pretty clear that Alex had shipped me a used unit or one that had escaped their seemingly lax quality control. I contacted Uptone immediately and requested that they make arrangements for their carrier to collect the unit from me for return to them and replacement of a brand new unit to me. Alex admitted to their negligence citing size slippages and disparities in their OEM case specifications which caused the misfit and rattling noise and worn out Torx screwdrivers stripping the screws. He was certainly aware of the issues affecting the unit I was shipped. However, he refused to do anything about it. He suggested that he would send me some screws and that I open up the unit myself and mount some electrical tape inside the case to stop the rattling noise. Again, he seemed to be fully aware of the issue and how to fix it. Unfortunately, I am not technically inclined nor do I own a Torx screwdriver. To render those fixes I would have to pay a technician to do so. This is rich considering that I had paid for a new and finished product and was shipped a used and/or damaged one. I wrote back to insist on a replacement unit being sent to me and that Uptone arrange to cover the return shipping costs to themselves. Again, Alex refused steadfastly and got hostile, saying that I was taking advantage of them. How exactly am I taking advantage? I paid full price for a new and finished product – that is all I expect, no more and no less. Alex also stated that he did not wish to lose any money on this sale even though Uptone offers the best customer service possible. His final offer was that I return the LPS 1.2 to them at my own cost and that he would refund me the US$250 I had paid meaning I would have to write off the US$185 credit value on the disposed LPS 1 which he is contractually obliged to repair but had refused to assist me with.

 

In this whole experience with Uptone, Alex strikes me as someone who is simply full of excuses. He pays lip service to providing good customer service but it is really just marketing talk. When it comes to the crunch, he fails to deliver but instead makes excuses and puts the blame on anyone but Uptone and himself. Outrageously, he even believes in his own self manufactured press. I recall earlier correspondence with him on why the Uptone ISO Regen would disconnect from my DAC for no reason, requiring that I unplug and replug the DC cable from the Uptone LPS 1.2 for it to work again. Not knowing that I was powering it with a LPS 1.2, he began by questioning the power supply I used. When told it was a LPS 1.2, he blamed the issue on the Silanna chip Uptone used in the ISO Regen – after all, it was an Uptone supply and he could not blame that anymore. I mean you manufactured this product, sourced and supposedly tested the parts and then sold it to the customer as a finished product for good money. The sheer lack of responsibility, ethics and professionalism!

 

As an example of Alex being purely a marketing act, you can see on the Computer Audiophile forum how he derides Sonore’s optical module and Optical Rendu, since Uptone now makes a competing product. Recall, Uptone came into existence making derivative products such as USB fixers and power supplies to be used with Sonore’s series of streamers – the hypocrisy of it all.

 

I appreciate that others may have had a good experience dealing with Uptone Audio but unfortunately, that hasn’t been the case with me. Uptone strikes me as a bucket shop. There are lots of cottage industries and artisanal products in hi fi and that is fine and good, so long as they are run with honesty, integrity and professionalism and not at the expense of unsuspecting customers. Pete of Triode Wire Labs is a great example of a fine one man show company who provides great customer service. Uptone is definitely NOT - YMMV!


mikey8811
ianrmack
227 posts
 
"PSA"...?...really?
Dude, you buy used gear then want it both ways from Uptone.

He doesn't need your type of business.
Get over yourself.

Nothing wrong with being thrifty and buying stuff used on the 'Net...HELLO, Audiogon!!

Your situation warns others about its perils.

You want to be serviced...?...well, buy stuff new.


the_treble_with_tribbles
43 posts
 
Following up with @thyname,

OK, this will take awhile to go through, but thanks for the link to the full history.

I caught enough to see that at first mikey8811 wanted a used or demo unit, but it promises to get more interesting after that.


crover
1 posts
 

Alex from UpTone Audio here (forgot that I even had an ancient log-in account here at Audiogon, not my usual "Superdad" moniker):


Regarding @mikey8811's continuation of multi-forum posting of false or mis-leading statements and messages taken out of context, there is so much to unpack here, and really it is a waste of my time.  But I will set some facts straight and well as repeat the basis for what all this is about--so folks can judge for themselves.

 

While it would normally be easier for me to quote sections and reply, it is clear that I am going to need to copy/paste this information into replies on the near half-dozen other sites where he is duplicating his baseless campaign.  Also, a couple of the points I'll make make may be in response to falsehoods posted on one of the other forums.

 

A) He claims that we sold him (the only sale ever made to him directly, and it was at below our cost) a used UltraCap LPS-1.2.  This is patently false. He bases this on only two things:

1) The fact that the black-oxide Torx screws we used look a bit ugly in their sockets (and I right away had offered to mail him a bag of new screws);

2) The fact that the unit he got happened to have a PCB board which was 0.1mm short (within our PCB firm's tolerances)--just enough so that the end plates don't squeeze the PCB enough to prevent a slight movement of the board in the case if you rock it from side-to-side.

3) We shipped his unit after receiving new boards and testing/assembling a new run. When we received payment from him, we simply took a full, retail boxed unit from the shelf and packed/shipped it. He received for $250 (including FedEx shipping) exactly what any other buyer would have received for $435 (plus shipping).

HE CAN PROVE TO HIMSELF THAT THE UNIT WAS NEW:

Every PCB in every product we produce has a 4-digit date code (this is different from version or revision number). On the UltraCap LPS-1.2 PCBs this number is located on the board next to the power switch. First 2 digits are the week number (01~52), second 2 digits are the year. In 2019 we produced two runs of 250 boards each. The first run was in February, the second run was in July--with boards actually received by us a couple months later. If Mr. Cheah slides the board from the case, he will find the date code of 2719. That is June 2019, when the bare board was produced--populating of board and receipt by UpTone was about 8 weeks after that.

 

B) He quotes another client who posted that he received goods back from us with nicks/dings/scratches on the cases:

1) Such damage NEVER occurs here at our facility. My assistant assembles hundreds of units and she comes to me when she sees even the smallest of blemishes on a new case or plate.

2) It is always astounding to us the condition that some repair units arrive to us, often due to the total lack of care taken either in their home use of it or in their packing for shipping.  People send things to us loose in poly/Tyvek shipping envelopes. We also see people being extremely rough with I/O jacks--including ripping them from the PCB, tearing off traces in the process--and turning the boards to scrap.

3) We always return repairs in the same case as received it--and we wrap/pack in the same foam as new units. Sometimes we'll receive a unit with so many scars that I can't bear to send it back in that same case. So I'll pick out some vastly better looking--but still 'B' stock--chassis parts and use those.

 

C) He complains that when we repaired his original LPS-1 under warranty, we replaced his entire circuit board with one from someone else's unit. This is true, but to his benefit:

1) We could have repaired his old board. But it is a complex design, repairs take a lot of time, and there would be possibility of other parts having been stressed but not found/replaced.

2) Original UltraCap LPS-1 boards have not been produced since 2017. The model was discontinued and superseded by a more advanced, more costly design.

3) We sometimes accept trade-ins of working, original LPS-1 units from people who want to upgrade to the new model. That deal is $275. We do not make any money on these trade ins, but it does give us working units to use for repair/exchanges for the few LPS-1 units that come back for repair under warranty.

4) We sometimes also repair LPS-1 boards, but because Mr. Cheah is located overseas we felt it would be more prudent to send him a fully test traded-in board.

5) Yes, the original LPS-1, with about 2,000 units sold, had a higher than expected long-term failure rate--about 3%. With the more advanced LPS-1.2 we made a number of architectural changes to address reliability, though it too, owing to some complex aspects (candidly explained elsewhere) has had a few hiccups.

 

D) He posts about a user who was concerned that we replaced his ISO REGEN circuit board with a newer version. This is odd because:

a) I know who that gentleman is (in Canada) and I checked our records. THE UNIT HE SENT TO US WORKED PERFECTLY--on my bench with the LeCroy protocol analyzer, and in my audio system.

b) Because he was in Canada, and because I wanted to be sure to rule out his problem being with the ISO REGEN, we installed a newer board for him free of charge--and paid for the international shipping.

c) Like any manufacturer, we reserve the right to change and improve our products without notice. Sometimes there are very small parts where we can make a difference. Usually the change is on purpose, but sometimes a part will go out of production, forcing us to search for a equal or better substitute.  The idea that we need to publicly disclose every in-line change  is ridiculous.

d) If we make a large enough revision to the basic design of a product, we will announce that. All our circuit boards have version numbers. The boards are populated with tiny surface parts, placed and soldered by expensive machines in a factory. This is not the old days where hand updates can be made. And since the retail price of our products--at only double our actual costs--is most all in their single circuit board, offering to upgrade users to a slightly newer revision would be prohibitively expensive, either for us or for the customer.

 

E) Mr. Y.A. Cheah claims that he has not received any refund. This also is false.

1) Below is a screenshot of the notification of chargeback that I received from my e-commerce site. HE RECEIVED HIS MONEY BACK LAST YEAR!

2) It is UpTone who has lost--and much more than just the cost of the NEW PRODUCT WHICH HE STILL HAS IN HIS POSSESSION. There were shipping charges, the cost of the original replaced unit, and the hours spent both in e-mails with him and now in defending our reputation across multiple forums.

3) I have challenged the chargeback and it will be up to his credit card company to decide the matter in another month or so.

----

 

To summarize:

==This is a baseless campaign by a person who we treated well (as we do all our clients) but has some other agenda.

==This is about scratched screws and a perfectly working product with a circuit board which knocks 1mm from side-to-side in its rails if you shake it.

==Every true fact or e-mail from ANY UpTone client anywhere in the world will prove just how exemplary our customer service is. As do the many kind comments offered here and elsewhere.

==Am I perfect? No. Are our products perfect? No. But we are producing and selling good value products at a reasonable price and treating our clients more than fairly. (It is not as if we are selling products each costing thousands of dollars; And we have all heard stories about audio companies selling expensive products and not treating their customers well.)

== We often loose money going the extra mile and giving people the benefit of the doubt. Because I take the long view about generating customer loyalty. We don't advertise, so word-of-keyboard is what drives the business.

==This April marks the 10-year anniversary of UpTone Audio (begun in 2010 when I formed as an LLC with MusiCaps after the closure of Hovland Company). So we must be doing something right...

 

Really I am done with this matter now.

Cheers,

 

Alex Crespi

UpTone Audio LLC


glupson
7,842 posts
 
"...which was 0.1mm short (within our PCB firm’s tolerances)--just enough so that the end plates don’t squeeze the PCB enough to prevent a slight movement of the board in the case if you rock it from side-to-side."
Is that 0.1 mm usual tolerance (for other manufacturers)? It seems very small. Is 0.1 mm really going to make such a rattle, or whatever it was decribed as?

Be it what it is, I have never had anything rattle inside a new piece of equipment. Maybe I got lucky and mikey8811 got unlucky. Could it really be that others have tolerances to 0.01 mm?
mikey8811 OP
259 posts
 
@glupson Yes, one really has to have luck when purchasing an Uptone product. Because everything is considered to be the customer's fault. Rattling noise from a mis-specified board size, botched up assembly and screw job, warranty replacement that failed after 2 months.

The "statistics" Alex quotes never add up. The LPS 1 was supposedly less reliable with a 3% failure rate. Yet the LPS 1.2 which is supposedly more reliable has a 5% failure rate when it suits him. But as he mentions to a customer on the receiving end, do not mention it to anyone as it is their cash cow.
The 3% and 5% seem to encompass an ever increasing number of people so it probably isn't really 3-5% anyway but higher.
Ultimately, even a customer who bought new and directly from Uptone and was taken care of, found Alex's business practices dubious and sold off all his Uptone products.
@the_treble_with_tribbles  go through the whole email chain. You will find if nothing has been left out that the scenario is as I depicted in my opening post.
As I have said before, I have not received the money back, regardless of whether Uptone had their funds deducted or not. My credit card issuing bank's policy is to hold the funds in escrow until the case is resolved. I doubt I will see the money back.

Another point that is perhaps of more interest to folk here is whether items purchased on the secondary market are entitled to warranty cover. In Uptone's case, their policy is a transferable 3 year warranty so that is not really relevant here. They are merely fulfilling their warranty policy by assisting with a faulty used product so long as the warranty period is valid. Alex has NOT gone out of his way to be helpful to me here. The same goes for the $185 credit he provided to absolve himself of said warranty towards the LPS 1 that failed shortly after a previous repair. He cannot have a warranty policy that way and then discriminate against people who have bought Uptone items used. But you have also seen from the experience of others who bought direct that much bantering and delaying was needed before Uptone took care of their issues.

If a manufacturer states upfront and outright that secondary market items are not entitled to warranty claims then so be it. But that is certainly not the case with Uptone. If he did that, the demand for new Uptone units will drop - you just need to look at the number of LPS 1's and 1.2's that are frequently available for sale to see that many that buy them subsequently trade out of them.
I have had experience with other manufacturers that have varied. Krell for example used to be country oriented. I have relocated around the world for work and an original unit bought from an authorised distributor in one country is only entitled to limited warranty in another within the warranty period. This is perhaps to protect their dealer network. Mark Levinson when it was under Madrigal allowed for warranty coverage wherever you are or were subsequently located regardless of the original country of purchase. But overall, in hi fi, I have found that it is rare for manufacturers not to be responsible for secondary market products so long as they are within the warranty period.
More to discover